Fate/Zero

I thought it was that the Grail had been corrupted by the evil of the world, and so it would repeatedly twist it's user's wish to make it as destructive as possible?

This might be my own problems, but I kind of feel for Kirei. he's obviously not a good guy: What he does to the Tohsakas, Kariya, and Irisveil is inexcusable. However, i don't really blame him for going in trying to find his purpose, and then finding out that he subconsciously wishes for destruction and suffering and going "Fuck it, I quit, brb going to go be a supervillain".

Kirie deserves some pity. He was raised to be a virtous, decent & kind human being & he did want to be good. Its jsut no matter what all he could joy from is being evil & just being a total dick in general.

He is one of the more popular characters of Fate for a reason.

edited 30th Oct '16 4:38:12 PM by slimcoder

Overall I find it to be a very unique twist on the Protagonist Journey to Villain.

I never realized that Ryuunosuke was voiced by JYB. I thought I recognized his voice from somewhere.

edited 30th Oct '16 6:07:49 PM by LinkToTheFuture

I feel like it goes both ways actually. I ended up watching UBW first and then Zero so my experience going into Zero was already knowing most of these characters were Doomed by Canon while with going in dark with UBW there were these character dynamics that felt underdeveloped without the knowledge of how they played out in Zero.

Link: Kotomine actually does like Tohsaka. He only gave her the knife on a whim.

Librarian: Yes, the Grail is corrupt and will try to destroy everything anyway, but with Kiritsugu's wish it didn't even matter. It would have turned out terribly anyway.

Yeah, I know, but I was just saying that it was like that before the Fourth War, because the other wars had corrupted it it so that no matter who wished it and how benevolent the wish was, the Grail would twist it into something horrible.

And also, I also watched Fate/Zero first.

edited 1st Nov '16 7:40:12 PM by theLibrarian

Just watched the first episode of this on Netflix. Was I supposed to understand any of that? Seriously, all I got was "mages war summoning one year earlier names I can't remember I can't tell these people apart exposition." Is this because I haven't seen Fate/Stay Night? I feel unintelligent. My head hurts.

In all seriousness, was it supposed to be hard to understand? Should I watch episode one again before continuing?

edited 30th Jan '17 5:59:20 PM by ArbitraryValues

Episode one was a big old exposition dump. If you feel overwhelmed, well, that's normal really. Just keep watching and it should come together.

Truth be told, I don't even know how I got versed with Fate lore. Pop culture osmosis is actually dang effective apparently.

Just start with the idea that there are seven mages vying for the Holy Grail and waging war by summoning historical/mythological figures.

edited 31st Jan '17 6:27:12 AM by fillerdude

I found the wiki pretty soon after finishing the series xD

And no, for now all you need to know is "There's a big mage war for a (possibly) fake Holy Grail that necessitates the summoning of ancient heroes"

When the series picks up, that's when you'll learn more.

Well, it's actually explicitly fake, but that doesn't matter because it still works.

Seven mages summon seven heroes and all try to kill each other for the magic wish granting cup.

Some basic-ish info that might help you.

The Mage's Association is a bunch of people who use magic. A lot of their higher ups are pompous upper-class like Tokiomi (Red Suit wine dude) and El-Melloi (Mean lecturer). The Clock Tower (based in London) is where Waver starts out and is like a University almost. Abilities are passed down through generations which is why El-Melloi is elitist and Waver isn't very good.

The Church in this one is sorta different from Real Life church as you may already have guessed. They have connections to the supernatural stuff and while they aren't magic-users like the Mage's Assocation, they aren't "muggles" either. The Church is usually a rival to the Mage's Association but some individuals from either may have connections to one from another, like Risei (Dad Priest) and Tokiomi (Red Suit Wine) do. They have a branch called "The Executors" who are basically assassins.

Grail War was started by 3 families, Tohsaka (Tokiomi, red suit), Matou (That creepy old uncle dude with the worms and Kariya), and Einzbern (Main character's wife and her family). Happens every 50 years or so, this is 4th edition.

Historical figures may or may not bear much resemblance to actual historical counterparts. Think of them as characters that sometimes make some reference to history/mythology. Except when you're studying history at which point visualize the actual historical figures only as the characters you're about to see.

7 Historical figures with 7 partners wanna kill each other for a magical wish granting artifact, except not really. Wizard battles ensue.

There.

So after hovering around the Fate fandom for a few years I decided to just watch this and the Unlimited Blade Works anime on Netflix. I finished Zero yesterday and I'm in the process of nearly finishing UBW.

Zero being a prequel made well after the original works does assume that the viewer has some familiarity with the franchise, but this is balanced by a tight plot and focus on preparation, planning, and even dialogue between the different parties. The result is that the narrative has enough depth and structure to keep me up to speed and interested, and there are layers of subtext that are gradually added as the series progresses.

There's a patient, methodical build-up to the action set pieces, and on many occasions the story focuses on information gathering and planning. In addition to this, the battle lines shift constantly as the combatants form short-term alliances in order to counter the moves of other opponents, but there's always the understanding that the foundation of these is nothing more than "the enemy of my enemy". This makes the character interactions very weighty, and in turn the tactics and strategy employed by the characters always fell exciting.

I liked pretty much everyone, or at least I felt they were all used to their best ability. Master and Servant, they all left a strong impression on me in some way. Kiritsugu and Kotomine stand at the top because of their dynamic with each other and their personal arcs. Tokiomi and Kariya's conflict was tragic on both ends, though I found Kariya less sympathetic the more he was given screen time. Waver and Ryuunosuke have the best relationships with their Servants, but as people they couldn't be farther apart in morality. Archibald's story was a good examination of the tolls involved in this setting's politics, and he himself made a good antagonistic force.

As for the Servants I'd have to say Rider Iskander came out as my favorite, due to his personality, relationship with Waver, and his epic King speech to Saber. Speaking of Saber, I came to know of her through pop culture osmosis and found the constant challenging of her ideals fun yet tragic in its own way. Especially because she came face to face with her failures in the form of Berserker Lancelot, a servant who could barely be called a character up to this point yet instantly garnered intrigue in me when I learned who he was. Their entire battle was a harsh reality check for Saber and I liked that. Caster Bluebeard was as great as a depraved child killer could be in a tournament setting, just fucking up everything by ignoring the Grail War and doing as he please made the whole conflict unpredictable in a fun way. I'd say he's the second best servant because of that. Assassin much to write home about but he, or rather they, were still used in an interesting fashion as part of the tactical scheming aspect I praised earlier. Archer Gilgamesh is yet another good servant here, utterly uncontrollable due to his galaxy sized ego yet having the power to back it up. His scheming with, and corruption of Kotomine in the second season showed him off best, and the man is just plain fun to listen too whenever he starts boasting or looking down on people. Love to Hate personified.

Fate/Zero isn't a perfect show, but while it does have several minor issues (and one "filler" episode), it does exactly what it sets out to do - capture my attention and make me want more.

Kariya becoming less sympathetic over time is why he's one of the few Zero characters I actually like.

x2Yeah, I agree a lot with your analysis and came away thinking much the same things.

I've always been really glad I watched F/Z first because not knowing how everything was going to end really made it feel like an ensemble cast with a lot of twists and turns (I've heard it referred to as anime Game Of Thrones which isn't a bad comparison).

It also felt a lot more tightly plotted than most Fate stuff, as in characters generally act intelligently and rarely, for example, retreat while they have the battle advantage without reason.

edited 3rd Mar '18 9:53:01 AM by Sigilbreaker26

After finishing UBW, that last line is very poignant. I've also never seen or read Game of Thrones, but I have played the Telltale game so I have an understanding of the comparison.

Could Lancer had killed Kiritsugu in the seventh episode? I ask this because I heard from somewhere that Lancer could killed Kiritsugu easily.

Was that when Diarmuid rescued Kayneth? Then yes.

Yeah, Lancer spared Kiritsugu out of chivalry.

.......... Ironic ain't it?

That's the one single time in the whole of F/Z that I can remember that happening (which is why I said rarely), and Lancer's whole shtick is Honour Before Reason so it didn't bother me anywhere near as much as the same thing happening in UBW over and over with characters who are far bigger assholes.

To be fair, he wouldn't have needed to be spared by Diarmuid if Saber had done her job.

Kiritsugu could have summoned Saber with a Command Seal, but that would affect the ending (namely, Saber would be able to resist Kiritsugu's order to destroy the Grail).