On using a Sexually Submissive Big Bad

ba-da bing! (i think that means i agree)

As for the OP, it makes no difference if she prefers a submissive role in BDSM (BSDM?). quite typically it is normal for someone to want what they dont have, women with lots of power want to be rid of responsibility so they like to be dominated, and guys with no power like to have power.

all of BDSM is based on power play; its a mutual/consensual exchange of power in a relationship. while always sexual, it can also go into other parts of the lifestyle as well. it makes a good bit of sense if she is a big bad or has a boss to be like that from a phycological-sexual angle.

edit: i reread your first post and that's simply rape not submission. Why she would allow him to rape her is even more perplexing. please don't get the two confused.

edit2: read the whole topic, all of what you said screams bondage is bad imo. Also you said you do not get what the basis of BDSM is, so why are you trying to write about it before you look it up? you might want to do that; also making her into BDSM just as a kind of thing to enhance evilness will come off as anchivilous.

edited 30th Sep '11 2:59:10 AM by jasonwill2

That's hot. Think it crosses too much into Real Women Never Wear Dresses, though. It's not sexism to have a female character be sexually submissive. Some men and women are sexually submissive.

I'm being totally unbiased in saying this, and it has nothing to do with my personal life and self.

edited 30th Sep '11 9:21:55 AM by LeighSabio

Actually, no, it's not like that. Your comparison is saying that I want to live in a world without females because I'm sick of females being submissive, which is neither an accurate paraphrase of my original statement nor an accurate description of my opinion.

A more accurate comparison to my original statement would be this: Given that I live in a world where it's society thinks it's right for white people to be racist, I say that I want to live in a world where society thinks it's wrong for white people to be racist, because I'm sick of white people being racist.

The interpretation of the idea "I want submission in females to not be socially acceptable" as "I want females to not exist" may imply that all females are submissive, which I hope you agree with me is not true.

On further examination, my original statement may not be an accurate description of my opinion, and so I propose to replace it with this statement instead: I want to live in a society where females are encouraged to take initiative and be independent in not just sex but in life in general. I also want to see more emphasis on females taking initiative than females being submissive.

All of this is also tangential to the topic at hand, which is this guy's sexually submissive villain.

I'd also like to say that a person who likes to be dominated in bed is not necessarily a submissive person.

</attempt at clear, rigid and specific language>

edited 30th Sep '11 9:44:33 AM by annebeeche

I do know what the basics of BDSM are, I'm just not too familiar with the other trappings. And like I've said before, the only reason it seems like this is Bondage Is Bad is because I have yet to find a good place to put in a counterpoint character. The heroine can't really fill that role as it's not really her thing and shoe horning it into one of her allies would be out place. I might be able to do something with a later story but that's getting ahead of myself.

Also, I've some up with some other Masters: The Butcher and the Keeper. The Keeper likes to keep his victims imprisoned and isolated from the rest of the world while the Butcher simply likes to cut things up.

Branch out through the character's relationships into other characters enough and you may be able to have a pro-BDSM "good" character.

edited 30th Sep '11 3:34:52 PM by annebeeche

You don't need to shoehorn in an anti-stereotype to balance out every stereotype.

If he wants to do that, though, he can.

Though if there is no room for the character, it's probably better to leave the character out.

Also, no, I didn't mean that you don't want women to exist; I meant that you didn't want submissive women to exist, which you directly said. I don't want a society where women are encouraged to be anything, I want a society where anyone can do whatever the hell they want so long as it doesn't hurt people. If the world sucks now, it doesn't mean we should try to make it suck in the opposite way, it means we should try to make it stop sucking.

That was probably a fault of some really bad wording rather than any real intent.

Also, I another reason why I don't have a pro-BDSM character is because I really don't see the need for one. Catherine's "preferences" are there to paint a picture of an extremely bad mindset.

edited 30th Sep '11 4:14:25 PM by SandJosieph

I thought that we were in agreement that Bondage Is Bad is not a good trope? Or does it only apply to female doms and male subs?

I know it's a bad trope but putting in a character simply to show that bondage isn't always bad would just be a rewriting nightmare. It would be best if a character (probably the heroine) says something along the lines of "Bondage isn't bad." Besides, most of the d/S moments happen off screen as stuff like that make me uneasy.

Well, you can begin by making it kinky and arousing, but then you can show it as more like a compulsion than a kink. Bondage isn't bad, but an addiction to pain and humiliation can be creepy if done right.

edited 30th Sep '11 7:32:13 PM by tropetown

I'm not suggesting that you should put in a counterexample. I'm suggesting that if your motivation in making your villain a BDSM sub is making them seem evil, then Ur Doing It Rong.

I think Catherine is creepy enough even without the whole BDSM thing (she's got mismatched eyes and rotten yellow teeth but a perfect body! DX ). In fact, her being a sub is only really there because it's just something she is into. The whole Masters concept actually evolved out of this very thread! So Yeah, all of your inputs are definitely coming into play here. XD

My suggestion? Make her hot; it'll make the sexiness go down easier. Unless, of course, there's a reason why you want her to be strange looking?

edited 30th Sep '11 8:35:43 PM by tropetown

She can change her appearance if the need arises and will generally take on a hotter appearance to sucker in other victims so her Masters will have someone else they can work their crafts on for a change. Granted she rarely bothers to change out of a new appearance, mostly out of laziness.

Keep in mind, the sub has the power. She pretends she doesn't (for whatever reason - often because, well it sucks to have to take care of yourself all the time), but a sub can stop things at any time. And there are bratty subs. Yelling things like 'can't you hit any harder than that, you pathetic loser?' is not unheard of.

Also, flogging, needleplay, etc is all an endorphin rush. It feels GOOD. And playing with a collar is a good tease.

Otherwise, may I suggest The Topping Book and the Bottoming Book for research?

If you want specific help with the BDSM, especially the D/s, PM me.

With this character she's got far more power than any normal person, which means making the switch between submissive slave to terrifying tyrant a rather bizarre one and vice versa.

"The sub has all the power" is kinda bullshit, in my opinion. Both have the power, because BDSM is a consensual consensus between all participants. If the consensus and the consent break down, then the BDSM play is over.

The assumption that the sub has all the power rests on the idea that what goes on is controlled only by what the sub consents to, which is related to the idea, common in wider society, that women have all the power in sex because men will never say no. Neither rule is actually true.

Well, I exaggerate, but, speaking as a sub, if I say 'stop' and he doesn't, I'm never seeing or talking to him again. On the other hand, I let him do whatever he wants, within the previously agreed limits. It's power exchange, but it's power exchange with a really good veto.

My point was that both parties have a veto, in reality. The dom's veto is generally a lot less obvious, of course, given the scene dynamics generally in place, but still there. They will still have limits. There will be things they won't do no matter how much the other party wants them.

Which makes me wonder: How much power should a dom in training be allowed to have? And who does the training?

how about you just use a less controversial thing for your anchivolous story? (curse tropes not using real words! my spell checker cant figure it out!) if you want (as i think you said) that woman shouldnt just be submissive, there is more than one way to do it.

May I ask why you chose a sex allegory instead of a direct social relationship showing that point your story is trying to make?

Anchivolous? Makes me think of something extra tasty! XD

But no, I went with this because the heroine of the story is forced to have a prolonged stay with the Big Bad as they track down her friend across the galaxy and along the way they have to pick up some victims to fuel their spacecraft. It is during these stops where the Big Bad's personal tastes become revealed and various Masters are revealed. Meaning the sexually submissive part sort of grew out of the story rather as a means to not force a time skip where the heroine had to just sit around twiddling her fingers.

uh-huh

edit: i mean, well idk it just seems... that if this approach is a lot of trouble that there could be alternatives, it sounds like it's one of those things that cause more plot problems then is worth it just for the rule of cool or a cool scene.. i know im tempted to do such things at times but the plot necessitates taht getting the circumstances right for such a thing to happen causes to many problems sometimes for such things.

edited 3rd Oct '11 9:05:43 AM by jasonwill2