"The exception that confirms the rule"

What sort of retarded concept is that? I mean, it don't make no sense, if a rule got exceptions it mean it ain't no good as an actual rule, only as an approximation. What do think, y'all? Ain't this just an excuse for stubborn people to keep ignoring evidence that contradicts their priors?

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

Pretty much.

I've thought it was idiotic ever since I heard it the first time and was pleasently surprised when I found people sharing my opinion.

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I even know people irl that have this idiotic tendency. saw someone on facebook applauding drug testing for unemployment, pointed out it was a rare exception where that actually happened, they fired back by pulling percentages out of their ass with zero evidence to back any assertions up except that "it happens, therefore it happens too often".

I fervently believe that there are very, very few rules that can/should never have exceptions. Without the absence of something, it is often hard to know it even exists. Thus, an exception can prove that a rule exists because it would just be a matter of fact without needing to be stated otherwise.

edited 13th Sep '11 10:46:46 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Tell that to gravity. It ain't confirming no rule, and there are plenty of rules with no exceptions ever and we still bother to name them and know them. And defy them.

edited 13th Sep '11 10:55:41 AM by JesusSaves

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

You folks apparently are not aware that "prove" in the statement "It's the exception that proves the rule" means "tests" not "confirms".

prove: late 12c., prouwe, from O.Fr. prover (11c.), from L. probare "to test, prove worthy,"

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Neither do the persons who use the phrase, though.

If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied -Rudyard Kipling

I'll be the exception then, because my last post was written with that in mind. Exceptions help the identification and definition of boundaries to a rule, thus they test (prove) it.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Madrugada, you are made of win and awesome and I didn't know that and most people don't either. However, smeantic sliding means even in Romance languages "prove" means "demostrate", not "test". In the context of talking about hypothesis testing, to be completely unambiguous about the "test" meaning, the French would use éprouver, the Spaniards would use poner a prueba. Prouver means "demonstrate" in French always, probar can mean "test", but more as in "try" or "taste" than "put to the test". Pruebo un zapato: I try a shoe. Pruebo un plato: I taste a plate. Pruebo un teorema: I demonstrate a theorem.

So, quirks of the language. Ain't the first time they induced stupidity. Remeber "bemused" and "beg the question"?

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

Words change definition over time - phrases remain constant, and thus the definition becomes inconsistent or confused. As the above post demonstrates, this is far from the only case of it happening, and I really really hate the smug sanctimony of people who get on their high horse about this sort of thing. Language is flexible and the problem is that this phrase uses an archaic definition of "proves". It's not batshit insane or really stupid.

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

I always thought that this expression was just a humorous way of saying "haha, it turns out I was wrong. But believe me, in my experience [what I just said] is usually true, I have no clue what went wrong this time".

I really doubt that any person, ever, really thought that exceptions somehow confirm the validity of rules.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I remember reading that this is supposed to apply to a rule that applies under certain cases. The exception would concretely distinguish when it doesn't apply from when it does, making the rule stand out when it does apply.

I really don't use it much, so I don't know beyond that.

Now using Trivialis handle.

Tell that to my parents. They use that rule like they quote the Bible. i.e. wrong and out of context. And let's not get into doctrine: I keep telling them, while success in life does show that you were destined by God, that success is not to be measured in freaking dollars, that's retarded bullshit our country got pumped full of during the Robber Barons era.

The phrase may be sound, but not the way people use it.

edited 13th Sep '11 11:12:14 AM by JesusSaves

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

"Proof" and "Prove" are really confusing because we still do use it in both the "test" and "confirm" meaning, sometimes simultaneously, as in "bulletproof" Something that's bulletproof has been both tested against bullets and confirmed to be resistant to them. And when you bake bread, you're wise to "proof" your yeast before adding it to the other ingredients by allowing it to bloom in a bit of warm water. You simultaneously test and confirm that's it alive and healthy enough to use.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Then shouldn't it be "The test that confirms the rule"?

Thinking simply, to say "exception" would mean that the test results already came in and it's not as expected.

Now using Trivialis handle.

Rules can't be confirmed, only falsified. But getting evidence in favor of the rule means it becomes harder to falsify. So it's kinda like confirming, except more in the kinda checking it's still there and nobody stole it sense rather than in the checking I put down that phone number you just dictated to me sense.

edited 13th Sep '11 11:28:29 AM by JesusSaves

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

Then I guess that your parents are, well, the exception that confirms the rule .

edited 13th Sep '11 11:28:30 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Well, somewhat. Certain rules can be proved by putting together premises. But anyway, for a test to "confirm" a rule could simply mean that you test the rule to see if expected results come up, and they indeed do.

Saying that an exception confirms the rule is strange, though as I said above it works better when the conditions have an exception built in. I suppose it works best when a rule seems to imply its inverse: "X -> Y, and assume not X -> not Y."

edited 13th Sep '11 11:32:35 AM by abstractematics

Now using Trivialis handle.

(╯‵Д′)╯彡┻━┻

edited 13th Sep '11 11:30:40 AM by JesusSaves

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

I always thought the phrase meant this is this the exception that confirms the rule.

As in we made an exception, shit went horribly wrong, and that's why we follow the rule.

Please.

Hooray, another example of how mucked up English can be.

(I like this tidbit from the Cracked article on too long, didn't read: "Hi, I am a miserable cretin of the Internet that must be spoon-fed pictures and factoids or I will piss myself.")

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

An exception to Gravity: Gravity worked It was precise and accurate and therefore it was worth building better and better telescopes which could measure more and more decimal places. Then they discovered that Mercury was wrong at the umpteenth decimal place.

Relativity gives the precise numbers. Gravity is a close approximation.

Liberty! Equality! Fraternity!

No. The newtonian model of gravity is an approximation. The einsteinian one is a closer approximation (one in terms of deformation of spacetime). But they're just models that try to approximate how the rule works. The rule, however, is universal, and doesn't care if you've figured it out or not.

An action is not virtuous merely because it is unpleasant to do.

I always thought that the phrase was originally a legal term. The idea being that you wouldn't bother making an exception unless there was a rule it is an exception to.

For example, a sign saying "no parking after 6PM" would imply that you can park before 6PM.

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