What's an Argo? (New crowner Sept 11): Banned From Argo

I really hate Persona Non Grata. Doesn't that mean something else entirely? Like, these people don't exist as far as they're concerned?

Oh, I guess it is pretty accurate. Well, I'm still not voting it up, but I could live with it.

And Never Come Back isn't a valid option. It's a dialogue title and we aren't allowed to use those anymore.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/persona+non+grata

— n , pl personae non gratae 1. an unacceptable or unwelcome person 2. a diplomatic or consular officer who is not acceptable to the government or sovereign to whom he or she is accredited

A person who is no longer favored or welcome: “After my angry words with the manager, I am persona non grata at the video store.” From Latin, meaning “an unacceptable person.”

Problem is "persona" itself can mean many things and that is really really obscure Latin that 9/10s of the people on the wiki won't understand.

Persona...

My concern is that it seems that, as a legal term, persona non grata seems to be limited to diplomatic contexts.

I don't think it's obscure Latin. Even if you're not familiar with the phrase you can infer its meaning from the English words "persona" and "person."

edited 12th Sep '11 7:23:23 PM by BooleanEarth

Not Allowed Back In Nebraska

edited 12th Sep '11 7:25:49 PM by pineapple2048

Nebraska? That's oddly specific. What would be the Trope Namer?

Perhaps 'And Don't Come Back' could be made more bearable by just getting rid of the 'and', should it survive? I don't see the the need for adding that to the crowner, though.

No, the problem with And Dont Come Back is it's too general. That's the same without the "and." At this point it's basically down to some variation of Banned From Argo Port or Persona Non Grata.

A play on "Offer Void in Nebraska", perhaps? (Not saying I agree with the name, just that would be my guess on what they meant...)

edited 13th Sep '11 2:37:17 PM by Jeysie

It looks like a tie at the moment between Persona Non Grata and And Never Come Back, despite the latter being terrible, so I'm bumping this for more votes.

Current standings: +9 (yeas:20 nays:11) 1.82 : 1 for Persona Non Grata, everything else in the red.

Yeah, alright. Looks like we have a winner.

Edit: or not.

edited 23rd Sep '11 4:52:15 PM by BooleanEarth

A surprising shift, as option #2 makes its move.

Current standings: +7 (yeas:22 nays:15) 1.47 : 1 for Persona Non Grata, which picked up two more yeas and four more nays, and, moving up on the outside, +4 (yeas:17 nays:13) 1.31 : 1 for Banned From Argo Port, which didn't even make the list last time. Everything else is still red.

I have to say that Persona Non Grata seems too broad. Our new contender may sound a little funny, but it seems to me to convey the trope better.

Persona Non Grata is holding onto its lead: +8 (yeas:24 nays:16) 1.50 : 1. Banned From Argo Port has fallen behind again, though it's still green at +1 (yeas:17 nays:16) 1.06 : 1

If we're going to go with a name that's far too broad (which is starting to look likely), should we broaden the trope to match? Make it about being kicked out of anywhere, not just towns? If we don't, misuse is almost guaranteed.

It's already being used as more than just "a ship and its crew" being banned from "a specific town" — just check the examples. I say widen the description.

I'm down with that, as long as we don't have any existing tropes already covering that territory.

Well, the current usage (regardless of the actual description) is "a cast of characters are kicked out of and banned from a specific place due to their actions there." I don't think that's too broad or too narrow, so I'm not sure we really need to change it.

As for the name, should we just implement Persona Non Grata already or what?

edited 27th Sep '11 5:34:40 PM by BooleanEarth

Go ahead. I'm calling this one and tagging it pending.

Trying again: the term "persona non grata" is much broader than what the current trope describes. You can be persona non grata at you local bar or at your in-law's house. If the trope doesn't match the common meaning of the term, misuse is nearly inevitable.

I agree with you, but the vote doesn't, and it's been long enough that we should do something.

And this trope applies to your local bar. What's your point?

As long as everyone agrees that it applies to your local bar. The early part of the thread had a lot of names being rejected because they didn't specify "town". Also, the trope itself still says: "you find a nice fun planet/country/town". Shima even wrote (in post 42): "Never Allowed Back to what? A bar? A dungeon? A country? A planet? A party? A friend's house?" Granted, that suggestion had other problems, it still sounded like an objection based on the fact that it could refer to a bar or dungeon or party or friend's house.

I recommend that we change the line about "you find a nice fun planet/country/town", if nothing else.

"Your merry band of travelers is crossing the stars/the earth/the county line, and you find a nice fun planet/country/town for some shore leave" is a bad line anyway. Too clunky and too general, plus "shore leave" is oddly specific compared to the rest of the sentence. I'll rename it and correct the wicks after dinner. Why don't you fix the description?

edited 27th Sep '11 5:35:32 PM by BooleanEarth