The Dominion: is this shit real

Is this shit real? Because if it is we are screwed.

Yeah, they're real. I highly doubt they're ever going to be big enough to "take over" though.

Still waiting for the Illuminati to take over...

Those guys have to go back to the end of the conspiracies queue first.

This guy sounds a little tin hat conspiracy theorist to me. Sure, we've got religious nutjobs in the mix right now. But he's basically just throwing rhetoric at us and saying 'think about it!'

Which is pretty much the same tactic as those trying to convince on the religious grounds as well. Also, that's a lot of pointless filler images there that don't make me take him as seriously as he wants me to.

They exist, but what you don't know is that they're a backwater church that no one notices and have no power in government.

And people still can't see why I hate religion when it produces assholes like this group.

The influence of this group has been blown out of proportion. People just love conspiracies.

Actually, they're actively involved with Rick Perry's race for the presidency. Like I said, it's not like it's ever going to happen, but they're certainly trying.

I would put it past this stupid country to elect some ass like Rick parry.

Meh, I think his chances are currently overrated. People here in his own state don't like him all that much.

ITT extreme fringe minorities disliked by the rest of their faith have access to Youtube where their extreme fringe minority status is not immediately apparent. Surprise.

"The Dominion" does not exist, no. Dominionism (actually two separate but related movements: the New Apostolic Reformation and Christian Reconstructivism; the former is the only one with any real standing or influence) does, in fact.

Here is a story on NPR (that hub of dirty liberalism) from someone who has been researching the New Apostolic Reformation for some time.

And here is a blog posting from Warren Throckmorton, a probably-biased but nonetheless clearly informed college psychology professor, on both groups and how they stand on the issue of homosexuality.

In short: the New Apostolic Reformation believes that politics and society in general is currently engaged in large-scale spiritual warfare between God and demonic forces; they recognize seven 'mountains of culture' which must be reclaimed in order to have won the war. These are: arts and entertainment, business, family, government, media, religion, and education. Not for them petty ideas of personal spiritual warfare. For those who ascribe to this fringe sect, the "culture wars" are chillingly real.

Do note that yes, this is an extremely fringe sect, and I'm quite certain even many fundamentalists would hesitate to align themselves with Dominionism of any flavor. However, the New Apostolic Reformation is rather closely linked with Rick Perry's campaign and political philosophy, as well as with the Ugandan "kill-the-gays" bill, which has made news sporadically in the last few months, so they may be fringe but they do have a surprising amount of influence.

edited 5th Sep '11 1:39:19 PM by Chalkos

@van: So you're blaming religion for what is essentially some guy trying to drum up incredibly false drama and for a handful of mean people for making a clubhouse?

Dev is an atheist. He made the video on these guys. And no I'm blaming religion on the stupidity, entitlement, and false moral superiority it fosters in it's follows.

@Chalk

What are these dominionist opinions on different world religions?

@Chalkos: The Friends of the Bridegroom and The Call conferences routinely bring in thousands of young adults. I'm not sure if they're small enough to be called a "fringe".

@Warrior: Convert or die. My stepfather thinks that we need to drop WM Ds on the entirety of the Middle East, and the church we went to supported that mentality.

edited 5th Sep '11 2:15:56 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

Thoughts to keep in mind:

• Most Christians believe dominionism is not merely controvercial and extreme, but a false teaching and God is still ultimately in control.
• In U.S. politics, "supported by X" is very, very far from "being a member of X". On a national level, many politicians aren't even aware of many of the smaller groups supporting them.
• Some conservatives are just as scared by the thought of a big government controlled entirely by liberals, as liberals are by a government solely controlled by conservatives. Naturally, those most scared on both sides want to make this fundamental split into a conspiracy rather than just a breakdown of national unity.
• It is true that many Christians believe that one way God stays in control is by blessing some nations over others, so those that are problematic ultimately come up against a powerful enemy or fail to prosper. Of course to at least some this means that if Christians fail to prevent a nation from falling into immorality, etc., they are responsible for its failure.
• Most Christians today regard "convert or die" as a very unchristian attitude.

edited 5th Sep '11 2:21:44 PM by FrodoGoofballCoTV

I was wondering if DG would show up in this thread . . .

To follow up on Frodo Goofball's statement, even people I'd call crazy think these people are crazy.

edited 5th Sep '11 2:50:03 PM by feotakahari

I've met my share of jackasses who weren't religious. I would blame the religion less and "people being stupid dicks" more...

Every asshole I've met have been extremely religious, but that just may be my area being full of fundie and me being a "militant" atheist (yes I ave been called that)

edited 5th Sep '11 3:01:27 PM by vanthebaron

...yeah, no, I can't say "only religious people are dicks" with a straight face. Untrue stereotype is untrue.

@USAF: I'm in the same boat as Van here. Pretty much every religious person I've met has been a complete dick to me, and justified their dickishness with "I'm just following my holy text".

Granted, this is probably because A) I grew up in a church that later became the group mentioned in the OP, that did advocate murder and atrocities against groups they didn't like (eg, child abuse in the name of "driving away demons") and B) Because I don't know if someone's religious or not until they start talking about it.

Edit: And more often than not, when someone talks about their religion, it's an attempt to convert people. And that requires taking a "holier than thou" attitude, which is obnoxious by nature.

edited 5th Sep '11 3:05:38 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

@warrior93: Unfortunately, I haven't found any actual material on that, but I rather suspect it's something along the lines of viewing them as false teachings at best and the work of demons at worst. Speculation, but given their other views not wild speculation, I think.

With regard to influence v. support: That's true, but there are individuals who subscribe to Dominionist theology and who most definitely cross the line from the latter to the former. Rick Perry's prayer rally some time ago was organized by people from NAR ministries, as is The Call, the famous series of prayer rallies after which Perry's was fashioned. As well, several high-level campaign advisors are dominionists. They are rather well-placed in many mainstream organizations, such as Liberty University (which may not be mainstream from our point of view, but it is certainly a mainstream social-conservative organization).

Finally, I don't mean to paint religion and dominionism with the same brush. Dominionism may have gained a number of devotees and some political sway, but I don't think it can be considered mainstream, merely more powerful than it should be. By no means do I consider dominionism one and the same as Christianity, in the same way as I wouldn't consider extremists of any religion the same as the mainstream devotees of that religion.

I'm sorry to hear that, DG, but you must realize by now that anecdotal sociology isn't the be-all, end-all, and also is a poor way of conducting social sciences...

No, the reason why I talk of my religion is to remind people that what you see on TV and in popular opinion is not the actual reality. You could say that I talk about any subject with that intent in mind. I won't deny that there are people who use the titles of religions to hide behind them and call themselves justified, but then again, I've seen that done with anything resembling a group.

No, what I feel is an extreme pity and sorrow that there are people who meet these hypocrites and think that's what I'm associated with, what other Christians are associated with, what religions are associated with. Do no harm to any person, do not coerce them into anything, be prepared to forgive, not insult, etc. Dominion isn't Christian, not in the least. The fringe groups that claim to be Christian but promote hate, violence, subjugation, anything of that nature isn't Christian.

Look, I'm sorry for your circumstances, van and DG, and anyone else for that matter. The world is a big place with lots of people, it's not odd that some people would get unlucky and have to grow up with such hypocrites. I don't expect you to forgive them or even associate Christianity with good light after meeting some of those people, but please, just keep an open mind to the existence of others that follow the religion, the majority, that are in it for the message of peace and companionship.

Thanks for listening.

edited 5th Sep '11 3:40:09 PM by Ramus