Hitler and Christianity

I don't know if Hitler was christian, it however safe to say he would of been a very bad christian by any standard.

edited 2nd Sep '11 10:47:06 AM by joeyjojo

hashtagsarestupid

Demoralize the enemy from within by surprise, terror, sabotage, assassination. This is the war of the future." ~Adolf Hitler

Well,he defiantly wanted to find ways to make sure the church did not intefere with his plans and since he adovated a police state then all religions had to answer to the government.

Neither are you the first, nor do I believe you did either.

Also: Maintaining values associated with Christianity =|= Being Christian

Programming and surgery have a lot of things in common: Don't start removing colons until you know what you're doing.

Defiantly =/= definitely. I don't think it means what you think it means. Though I agree he was in defiance of Christ's message.

edited 2nd Sep '11 10:51:05 AM by lordGacek

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

If people want to nitpick whether someone qualifies as Christian then you can eliminate pretty much everyone.

Now, was he and does he remain a member in good standing of the Catholic church? On that there is no doubt, he bought his way into favour and was never excommunicated. After a failed assassination attempt on him the vatican even held a ceremony of thanks for his deliverance.

Actually, the orignal theory of eugenics was created by Sir Francis Galton who was the cousin of Darwin. However Galtons theory was more based on social class rather than race. Finally, the main user and practicer of eugenics wasn't the Germans between 1933-1945 but the USA between 1900 to 1970ish

Dutch Lesbian

The main problem with Christianity is that Christ's message and God's message two separate and quite frankly hard to reconcile things. Was Hitler a follower of Christ's message of brotherhood and humility? Oh hell no.

Was he a follower of God's message of social dominance? Yeah. It's easy to see that.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

That doesn't mean it has anything to do with evolution. Charles Darwin is not the god of evolution.

edited 2nd Sep '11 11:26:34 AM by Heartbreaker

Leave your dignity at the door.

Galton was inspired by old cous Charlie and the Origin of Species but Galton saw no differences between "races".

edited 2nd Sep '11 11:28:38 AM by whaleofyournightmare

Dutch Lesbian

What about Christ's message of death to non-Christians (Luke 19:27)?

The real problem is that whatever that person may have said 2000 years ago has been edited and re-edited by people who were ... not perfect, to the point it includes things like that.

Love what this says about Jews in a thread about Hitler. Real classy.

@Michael: if it is what I think it is, it looks like it's yet another allegory.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

Well that's not to say that it's all sparkles and rainbows, but by and large, the voice of the Jesus character is more about good things than bad things. (And that's vice versa for God)

And yes, I find it quite interesting (and admirable to be honest) that generally speaking those of the Jewish faith have been able to arrange their religion in such a way that it gets around much of the ugly aspects of the core text.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

I always have found it very odd, that Israel, despite its many issues, has become a paragon for gay rights, while so many who oppose it still cling to the "old testament" to justify their beliefs against homosexuals.

edited 2nd Sep '11 11:51:46 AM by OhSoIntoCats

@Michael

That was mostly talking about the second coming.

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.

Maybe the question shouldn't be "Was Hitler Christian?" but "Why were so many Christians Nazis?" because in Germany Hitler had strong support from many (not all but the heavy majority) of clergy both Protestant and Catholic. I am not btw denegrating those Protestants and Catholics (and there were quite a few) who risked themselves in ways both major and minor to protect victims of Nazism but those were mostly individual cases. thepower structure very much either supported him or stepped out of the way..

edited 2nd Sep '11 12:27:10 PM by tricksterson

Trump delenda est

Because Germany consisted of people of that religion primarily. And by heavy majority, you mean many were forced into the positions by threats of death or were busy hiding Jews and other victims in churches or wherever and not being caught by simply saying yes "they were in support of Hitler". Pretty much all of the census information from Germany during the Nazi Regime is worse than crapshoot.

The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.

@Cats: This isn't a thread about Israel, so I won't derail further, but when it comes to ethnic exceptionalism and genoside, the torah provides plenty praise for it.

Anyway, I've once read someone claiming that Hitler was actually Muslim. Make of that what you will.

I believe statements have been found from Hitler criticizing Christianity, atheism, neopaganism, and of course Judaism. He had a more positive view of Islam, Hinduism, and Shinto (IIRC), but I don't find it likely he actually believed in any of those. Agnosticism seems unlikely for such an extreme person. By process of elimination, I suppose that makes him a Deist.

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Or someone who believes in belief. Bit like the Norwegian terrorist from a month back; he wanted to protect the Christian europe, but didn't himself believe in christianity's teachings.

It's a sort of ivory tower atheism, where the somewhat solipsist individual places themself above the uneducated masses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_von_Papen

Franz von Papen was chief of the Roman Catholic party. He formed a co-alition government with the Nazis.

Hitler made speeches "I live and die a Catholic."

Jim Jones is an excellent xample, he started as a Christian priest and became a priest of Jim-Jones-ism.

Christianity is a religion for the weak is from Nietsche. Nazi ideology includes selected quotes from Nietzscheanism.

How much of Hitler's Catholicism was his true faith and how much was People Sit On Chairs politicians being hypocritical?

IMPO he truly belived in Catholicism, he truly believed his Messiahhood and he was in true denial about any discrepancies between them = Well-Intentioned Extremist.

@trickster

"Maybe the question shouldn't be "Was Hitler Christian?" but "Why were so many Christians Nazis?" "

No. That is a closely related and very relevant question. This thread is what the OP posted. That's what Threads are there for. Your question is On Topic for this Thread or you may launch a new Thread to focus on that topicq.

von Papen was the Nick Clegg of his day.

edited 2nd Sep '11 3:25:50 PM by Trotzky

Liberty! Equality! Fraternity!

Source? That sounds very Art Of War and, well, too intelligent for Hitler.

Anyways, maybe Hitler wanted to assimilate and overthrow Christianity, or maybe he honestly thought Nazism was the true way to implement Christianity and fulfill the will of God. The distinction between the two is insignificant enough to make the whole discussion needlessly semantic.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

...Did you just compare David Cameron to Hitler?

Currently taking a break from the site. See my user page for more information.

Hitler only liked Christianity if it furthered his own goals and would accept no other God than himself. He was an opportunist and saw opportunity in exploiting the faith of the German people.

The Vatican was scared utterly shitless by the Axis so they tried to remain quiet during the war. They were totally surrounded and there were whispers that Hitler was more than willing to kidnap the Pope if it came to that. Although their fear is understandable, it probably would have been better had the Church spoken out publicly against the Nazis. Of course, then you end up with the Pope ruling from Rio De Janeiro for a few years.

edited 2nd Sep '11 7:16:06 PM by Pentadragon

...yeah, I'm pretty sure Hitler's definition of "Christianity" included "furthers my power over the people" and if it didn't, it could go. He did, after all, force alterations to the local church doctrine to reflect his views.

Also, Don't Shoot the Message. Just because somebody twists an idea to justify stupid shit doesn't mean the idea is bad or wrong. Unless the idea really does say that stupid shit is ok/right (which Christianity, to my knowledge, does not, in this case) in which case... yeah...

I am now known as Flyboy.