needs clarification: Feminist Fantasy

The laconic specifies "fantasy and science fiction," so we either need to rewrite the laconic or expand the definition of this genre. The description also mentions "fantasy and science fiction" in parts.

Would the majority of the Discworld series (and not just Equal Rites, the Tiffany Aching books, and Monstrous Regiment) count? Most of the books in the series have male protagonists but fulfill all of these requirements.

Feminist Fantasy doesn't require female protagonists. Discworld as a series has strong female characters even in books where they aren't the protagonists. I'd say they count.

Among the previously deleted examples, Angela Carter, Gwyneth Jones & Nalo Hopkinson all wrote fantasy with strong female protagonists.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:08:48 PM by xdyj

I think Vasha was overly enthusiastic in her cuts. Sadly a lot of them don't give much context which we really should encourage more of. I think that's why this has gotten so many bad examples.

That said, I don't think the anime examples count. They're feminist media, but not Feminist Fantasy.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:11:02 PM by shimaspawn

And I do feel the sf vs. fantasy distinction is YMMV. Glory Season is definitely sf in my opinion.

Better too few good examples than too many bad examples that don't fit, I guess.

Anime is a medium though, not a genre. There are anime and manga that take place in a fantasy world. Sailor Moon would be an urban fantasy, and Fullmetal Alchemist is some sort of steampunk fantasy. The former is all about girl power, the latter has way too many strong, well-developed female characters to not count. There's also One Piece, which is the most 'feminist' of the big three manga, but probably needs a few more good female characters to really have equality.

I'm for expanding this to include sci-fi, since there sadly aren't all that many science fiction works that would count. The only one I can think of right now is The Left Hand Of Darkness by Le Guin.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:25:49 PM by Autumncomet

I meant the ones on the page. Not the medium in general. Kendo Slice of Life? Really?

It's not a codified genre in Sci-Fi. It is in Fantasy.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:29:24 PM by shimaspawn

Ah okay. I get you. I'm rather interested to see how a mahjong feminist fantasy would turn out.

So keep it as fantasy, maybe tweak the description a bit, add some examples, and hope for the day that we can get Feminist Sci Fi as a genre?

There are also CJ Cherryh, Octavia Butler, Joanna Russ, Tiptree and Gwyneth Jones' sf works etc.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:34:57 PM by xdyj

The Other Wiki has a feminist sf page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminist_science_fiction while having no entry on "feminist fantasy". In examples they kind of put sf and fantasy together and includes works like Xena and Buffy.

Wikipedia is notorious for having terrible media coverage and they have a tendency to call all speculative fiction Sci-Fi. They're not what I'd call a trusted source on speculative fiction. It's something they're wrong about more often than they're right.

edited 11th Feb '12 10:43:17 PM by shimaspawn

I’ve restored the Ursula K. Le Guin entry and added ones for Sheri S. Tepper, Pat Murphy, Gwyneth Jones, and Angela Carter.

I’m pretty sure Carol Emshwiller and Karen Joy Fowler have written works that could fit here, but don’t know which ones to name specifically.

I'd suggest just merging fantasy and SF into a Feminist Speculative Fiction page to put a stop to all the hassle.

Feminist speculative fiction might work. Are all of TV Tropes' genre pages named after pre-existing terms or do we have some leeway there?

edited 12th Feb '12 5:47:33 PM by Autumncomet

Octavia Butler certainly has feminist Sci Fi.

I need to remember to add the Inheritance Cycle by NK Jemsin..

And a lot of Nalo Hopskisin's work is sci fi, although much of it is fantasy such as Brown Girl In The Ring