China's First Operational Aircraft Carrier

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Well, what about this? Should the world be concerned? What does this portent? The ship itself is an obsolete former Soviet VTOL carrier, but no one thinks China is going to stop with this one ship. What will happen once China has a functioning sea-going carrier force?

edited 10th Aug '11 5:13:35 PM by DeMarquis

Well... call me when the US Navy can't defeat every other navy on the planet combined and doesn't weigh as much as the next 13 navies combined... or if the US is suddenly a worse option than China.

Otherwise, not a concern of mine...

There is only one outcome possible with a Chinese carrier navy. Conflict with the US Navy. We have sovereign territory within a shorter distance than you think to mainland China. (And I am not referring to the US bases in Japan or the Philippines.)

Lol.

Their aircraft carries isnt intended to be used against the U.S which is rather adept at hitting large targets.

People always make this baseless associations and immediately engage into their fantasies of war (why do ppl like the idea of war soo much?)...

It is meant as a way to exercise presence in the Yellow (isnt that a racist name?) sea. and the Indonesia, Singapore, Philips region.

They dont need to engage the U.S in navy warfare. They have nuclear weapons.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:17:36 PM by Baff

The only short-term conflict I can think of is Taiwan. In the long-term, China is doomed to fail. Demographics and economics will bring it down before it's a credible threat to the US. India, on the other hand...

Unless China is going to attack us in the next 10 years, not a big concern, here...

All I can say is we have another reason to keep an eye on China.Or better yet another reason we need to pay off our debt to them or they shoot.Or we are going to go into another Cold War now with China.

What happens is the same as when any other nation gets a carrier: they patrol the seas and maybe use it when some small country does something they really don't like.

Why should being communist or a dictaorship not make them want a navy. They've already got nukes. I doubt carriers will tip the balance of power that much.

With in your life time you will see them succeed. Your patriotism clouds your vision of future events.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:18:42 PM by Baff

^ As I said, there is US sovereign territory closer than you think. The Marianas Islands are US territory and they are only a couple hundred kilometers away from the Philippines.

Given we're in the region of the Western Pacific (and you know Japan won't take kindly to China fielding a multi-carrier navy) it becomes plausible.

Lol China seems to be a Boogyman for a lot of people...

But fear not! You might think they have leverage over us, but it is actually the other way around.

and well the U.S has military has bases and whole damn fleet at their doorstep so I think is rather fair for them to have a petty air craft carrier in their own mainland

edited 10th Aug '11 5:22:09 PM by Baff

Oh no!

How dare they develop their navy to match 1980s minimum standards!

i.e. Even bothering to react to this news is blind jingoism. If this bothers you, you should be bothered yourself. If anything this move has been too long coming; if China has any responsibility at all to the world beyond its border, it's picking up the new mantle as a rising superpower and getting more involved.

And my personal (uneducated) opinion is the carriers have more or less gone the way of the battleship anyway. Good for coordinating police actions, not so much for duels with other first-rate powers.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:23:48 PM by Jinren

Nowhere near enough. They would have to fire every single missile they have...just to sink one ship. At which point we have a thousand or more warheads aimed right at China who has no capability for anti-missile defense.

Nuclear weapons is a losing proposition to them, we have the firepower to render China almost devoid of human life through nuclear means alone. China at best would cause a few thousand casualties. So let's see the odds, a few thousand Americans traded for nearly a billion Chinese. I'll say to China, with that outcome, go for it I dare ya.

Remember, the PLA's nuclear capability is not that of the USSR. They do not possess the ability to invoke Mutually Assured Destruction.

China's population is demographically unstable and too big, and their economy is destined to fall. Not to mention they're sorely in need of a revolution. Don't blame me, look at them. If the PRC hasn't fallen in 20 years, I'll personally go to Beijing and give them a cookie.

Unless China has lost a few... thousand... brain cells, it won't directly contest the US. Japan needs to rewrite its constitution and field its own military if it feels so threatened. And what do you propose we do? Tell China it can't have a navy? We have no right, dictatorship or not. We already have a stupidly large military, and it can't get much bigger unless we magic up some money (or cut social programs we need more)...

edited 10th Aug '11 5:22:29 PM by USAF713

ICBMS.

They will not hit ships, the will hit civilians!! As Mao said, nuclear war would be beneficial for China because they had more ppl that could survive it (until the nuclear winter that is)

MAD all over again. But there will never be a cold war with in the 2 unless something rather dramatic happens.

Also read my above post.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:24:03 PM by Baff

^ They won't use that carrier on weaklings like Vietnam alone. They'll be itching to try Gunboat Diplomacy on the US and Japan.

And we can defend against every Chinese ICBM they got. Remember we have operational missile defenses in Alaska. (which is the only ballistic route they can use if they even so much as want to threaten the US with nukes.)

And I reiterate, China does not possess the ability to invoke MAD. They have at best 500 warheads compared to our 5000. Most of those warheads are not ICBM capable.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:25:41 PM by MajorTom

This. China has, what, 300 nukes? US missile shields can block about 60, if I recall correctly, and they're expanding them (against my personal opinion, but, what can you do?) China will lose the nuclear war. Not even to force a mutual loss, either, but they'd lose. They aren't the USSR, and they know it. Besides, it's more profitable to avoid nukes, and the PRC leadership is Only in It for the Money...

So who should be more worried (if anyone should be) the US and it's allies, ASEAN members, or India and Russia?

There is no way in which that makes even the slightest bit of sense. China is not a cartoon supervillain.

Lol missile defense is sort of worthless...

and the above

Gun boat diplomacy???? Ha!! you most be mad!!! a 1970s air craft carrier they bought form the british (or the french or whomever) against the pacific fleet!!!!

I know you dont like the Chinese leaders. But they are not 5th graders you know?

Is more of a symbolic thing anyways.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:27:58 PM by Baff

^^ They're practically playing Gunboat Diplomacy on the economic stage. Why not try it for real once they have carrier capabilities?

They may not be a cartoon supervillain, but they are predictable.

^ Says the guy who believes a country with 500 warheads can actually threaten mutually assured destruction on a country with 10 times the nuclear firepower alone.

We've been researching and testing means to defend against missile attack for 50 years. We know it will work in a live fire scenario.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:28:27 PM by MajorTom

Also extremely wrong.

What would happened to China if they sold U.S debt??? I let you figuere that out.

and yes. They could kill everysingle human on earth within 10 years if they wanted to with out hitting the U.S once. Ill let you figuere out that one too.

And we have only been testing missile defense since the reagan years... conceptually. It most have 20 years of experimentation, with out good results soo far.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:31:26 PM by Baff

Meh, I disagree, Tom. They'll do Gunboat Diplomacy, but not to us. I bet they're after India. They might try and double-team with Pakistan...

Why would an old carrier make them do gunboat diplomacy? They have boomers for crying out loud. And why is China suddenly so evil? Communism does not make people want to destroy the world.

They are just learning from the good old U.S

edited 10th Aug '11 5:30:06 PM by Baff

^^^ Which given the sentiment over Pakistan's flagrant reaction about Bin Laden it wouldn't surprise me if the Chinese tried Gunboat Diplomacy against Pakistan and we'd abandon them to the Middle Kingdom.

^^ Boomers that are 40 years old and wouldn't make it close enough to fire on the US mainland. Their diesel fast boats might be able to surface in the middle of a US carrier group, their boomers aren't so lucky. We've gotten really good at anti-submarine warfare in the last 70 years.

edited 10th Aug '11 5:31:57 PM by MajorTom