Superpowers and rising states.

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:11:51 AM by JosefBugman

Perhaps, but everyone's definition of "benefit the people of the nation" is different, after all...

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:14:57 AM by JosefBugman

Call me self-centered, but I think I'd chafe to death in any other country. I would feel unnecessary, like my society wasn't accomplishing anything. So what if the US isn't perfect. We can make it better. However, we also get to influence world events. 500 years ago, we will be remembered—for good and for ill—because we changed the world.

I think I'd rather be imperfect and well-known rather than a utopia that nobody will remember.

Of course, this isn't a perfect argument, but...

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:20:10 AM by JosefBugman

Set your goals low and you will achieve exactly that: nothing. And a society cannot be measured by what its greatest individual accomplishes; instead, it must be measured by what its people as a whole accomplish.

No, but there must be a balance. Why bother with utopia if all you do is create a boring society where people are complacent? What does society as a whole accomplish with sitting on its ass because it apparently has no problems? Conflict drives society. Remove that, and you stagnate.

Besides, at the very least, we can set an example for our children, and remind them what works—and what doesn't.

edited 9th Aug '11 4:39:19 PM by USAF713

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:23:04 AM by JosefBugman

America does not have high goals as of this time.

^Hold on buster, don't you start accusing us of having a "staggering debt." That's BS-the nominal debt is pretty high, but in terms of its overall effect on our economy, it's nowhere near at problem levels.

edited 9th Aug '11 4:47:20 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Rome was not remembered as being the launch pad for various things. (The definition of dictator, the original spread of Christianity, the aqueducts, etc.) Rome was remembered for being a superpower that butchered nations who opposed it, conquered most of Europe lifting them out of the Bronze Age, and its mighty feats in engineering, intellectualism, fiction, politics, and war.

Ancient China was not remembered as a launching pad for others. Neither was the heyday of the British Empire. Or the Spanish Empire. Or any other superpower that has ever come to be past and present.

A model constitution for the vast majority of modern democracies? Curing several major diseases? Putting a man on the moon—for the world, not for ourselves? Helping to defeat one of the worst regimes in human history—and then walking away from an entire occupied continent without taking over the entire place, where most historical powers would have imperialized all of it? Proving that a colony could successfully rebel against an empire?

There are a host of problems we have that we need to fix. I see no reason why we should curl up and die to do it, however. You act like the only way to be a proper nation in the world is to drop the military, abolish private industry, and act like nothing else in the world is our problem. Not all of Europe does that, perhaps, but they would if they could. News flash: we participate in world affairs because people want us to. We don't leave the rest of the world to burn, when we could have—and maybe should have—decades ago. We keep going in spite of anything Europe says. We never tried to be Europe, we never wanted to be Europe, and we shouldn't be Europe.

I would not sacrifice everything the US has ever accomplished for simple safety and security. If we wanted safety and security, we would have rolled over and died in the aftermath of World War Two. We fight. We struggle. It's part of who we are. Perhaps Europe doesn't understand that anymore. Perhaps they'd rather everyone stayed in their corners and left each other alone. I, however, want to change the world, and I want my country to be there. I'd rather the US stand alone and be remembered as the nation that tried and failed than fall in line and not be remembered at all.

</rant>

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:25:20 AM by JosefBugman

I would fix our bad points before I let someone take over our position and walk all over us. I would fight and die on any battlefield before I let the US fall behind into the backwater area that is known as "forgotten history." In the end, we will fall, but I will do anything necessary to make that day as far into the future as possible.

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:27:37 AM by JosefBugman

@ Tom Well China is remember as having invented pretty much everything that wasnt invented in Europe.

It was also the launch pad of Buddhism.

And people do remember Rome for having launch chrisitanity. Specially ppl like me, as I am a "Roman Catholic".

Spain brought Christianity to the New World, and Algebra and Classical Greek philosophers into Europe.

England introduced the world to something called industrialism.

And while they did not invent dictatorship, we all know the name of some Roman dictator/emperor.

Besided everything the Romans did was done by the Greeks. It has been stated by some that the Roman civilisation was a plagiarizing of the Greeks.

edited 9th Aug '11 5:18:40 PM by Baff

^^ Spoken like a Euro who has forgotten his history. (Or actively whitewashes it.) The UK of today won't be remembered for the NHS, they'll be remembered for being the last actual bastion of resistance against Nazi Germany. The rest of the continent is little different. Nobody's going to care in a thousand years that Germany had a national health service for decades before anyone else, nobody's going to care that a petroeconomy up north called Norway could provide everything for its people cradle to grave.

No they will be remembered for the events that shook the world's foundations. For Germany that will forever be the World Wars. For Britain, it will be its mighty empite and Navy. The same holds true for anywhere.

Remember, archaeology is unkind to the mediocre, there are countless cities and ruins on this planet that remain forgotten because they didn't shake the foundations of the world order, because they didn't do anything like a great war that will earn them remembrance.

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:30:35 AM by JosefBugman

Is being remembered all that important when compared to keeping your people safe and happy?

Considering "being remembered" will usually occur long after anyone involved is dead, that's a good question.

^^ Yes. Because in the end, you and everything you hold dear turns back into dust. Without remembrance, nobody will know or care that you existed and were safe and happy.

Immortality is found in the pages of history. Mortality is found on the road of mediocrity.

edited 9th Aug '11 5:30:40 PM by MajorTom

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:31:16 AM by JosefBugman

But history lives forever. Write your name into history by doing something profound and you achieve immortality.

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:35:35 AM by JosefBugman

Lol Tom when I think about England I dont think about it as the last bastion of Europe against the Nazi (you forgot Russia by the way)

I think of parliment, the Magna Carta, and a bunch of Kings. sure the Armada invensible being defeated its a highlight, but their legacy carries more to it than just that.

Same goes for the Roman, I mean, Church for Roman Catholic was in Latin for the last 1700 years!!! It only change 60 years ago.

Tom, why are you so bitter? Why must I be a Euro who "forgot his history"? Plese dont isult me BY calling me a Euro. Lolololol. I am just kidding European friends.

I mean when I say Greece what do you thing? Military victory? Slavery? Or philosophy?

Ok. Time for u to dissapear and reapear 3 pages later with some more flame bait.

edited 9th Aug '11 5:51:23 PM by Baff

But memories are memories. I bet there are some people out there who know about those things quite well compared to us common people.

And while there are fragments, I bet other pieces of the puzzle is sneaking somewhere under the ground, ready to be discovered.

edited 9th Aug '11 5:47:48 PM by chihuahua0

-ignore-

edited 24th May '12 1:36:09 AM by JosefBugman