Marvel Cinematic Universe

So he was basically the Avengers' Snapper Carr?

Wow, I've never heard of Snapper Carr before today but he sounds like Rick.

I forgot about him, sounds like an apt description.

I actually first heard about both Snapper and Rick from an old Nickelodeon Magazine special that was promoting that one Fairly Odd Parents special - you know, "The Big Superhero Wish" (which was fairly underwhelming, really). It had all sorts of stuff about superheroes, including an article about sidekicks. It had Robin, of course, as well as Scrappy-Doo, but it also had a bunch of fairly obscure ones, including Snapper, Rick, Etta Candy from Wonder Woman, Kato from the Green Hornet, and maybe one or two others.

It also talked about some fairly weird superheroes. Dazzler was mentioned, as was Matter-Eater Lad and The Whizzer. The freaking Whizzer.

Someone there was a fan.

edited 18th Sep '14 1:26:22 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Ah yes, The Whizzer. The A speedster whose colour scheme conssited of yellow

It was a different time. It was a very different time. And let's face it, consideirng "whiz" as in "whiz by" is supposed to be mena really fast, can you blame them for coming up with him?

And who can forget the iconic Superfriends sidekicks Wendy and Marvin and their superdog!

@Kalel 92, the extent of Shang Chi's further exposure prior to becoming an avenger recently would include being an Ultimate Knight in the Ultiamte Spider-man comics. without that I wouldn't have even heard of Iron Fist, Shang Chi, or *pffttt* Moon Knight.

edited 18th Sep '14 1:31:32 PM by MousaThe14

The weird part was at one point, Whizzer was the father of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

They seriously dodged a bullet there.

The furious retconning until something resembling a semblance of a coherent backstory popped up that incorporated everything that had been established about Pietro and Wanda was a joy to behold.

Back to the Iron Fist conversation. On the one hand if they do go with him over Shang Chi they can avoid the Captain Ethnic implications that the latter would have. On the other hand if they cast Iron Fist as a white man we'll get a Mighty Whitey situation. My solution would be to make him anything but white or Asian but I doubt they'd go for that.

edited 18th Sep '14 2:23:39 PM by kostya

He's not a Mighty Whitey.

So...he's not mighty? Dude, harsh.

His entire background is he's a blonde white guy from America who goes to Asia and learns Asian martial arts so that he's better than all the Asian people.

The Spider-Man cartoon makes it even worse by having him constantly spout nonsensical fortune cookie wisdom.

edited 18th Sep '14 3:52:28 PM by comicwriter

"Learns Asian martial arts" is kind of understating it. "Was gifted a mystical force that powers up his fist" is more like it.

And I think the only reason he got that magic tattoo was because he was white.

That.

The best person at Asian martial arts is an Asian martial artist named Shang-Chi. Iron Fist has a superpower.

I don't know much about him but isn't he a white guy who finds out he's basically the Kung Fu messiah and becomes a far better student than his Asian peers as a result? Sounds a lot like a Mighty Whitey to me.

Bleh, cultural appropriation is such a mess of an issue that I can't figure out why it's racist anymore.

Mighty Whitey is problematic because it is often used to tell stories of ethnic cultures but deprive us of a protagonist of that ethnicity.

But Iron Fist, on the whole, is set in New York City. It's also not a story inherently about culture; it's about a supernatural martial art. Okay it means the scenes of Danny's childhood are going to be exploring an Asian setting through the comfort of a white protagonist, but on the most part the story is the same as the Batman Begins movie. White billionaire protagonist spends time in Asia to learn a martial art so he can return to his father's city and right the wrongs of his death. I know that film is controversial because the master of the martial arts was played by an Irishman, but I don't think I've ever heard an argument that this aspect of Batman is problematic.

The other thing that could be argued against it is that Iron Fist is a story steeped in cultural appropriation, which people consider problematic because it robs culture of the integrity of their mythos by it being appropriated as fad fashions. But Danny's culture is explicitly asian. He lived in asia since he was nine, his adoptive parents are asian; his father was raised in asia his entire childhood and his adoptive grandparents through his farther are also asian.

If I take a long hard look at Iron Fist the only thing I can find problematic about him is that he doesn't aid representation in super hero protagonists as well as other possibilities, but even so he's far more representative than the usual stock because he's of a culture under represented, he has a happy and healthy interracial marriage and one of the few examples of a character who grew up an ethnic minority in a culture other than the west.

Iron Fist isn't problematic. What's problematic is the larger issue of Marvel's live action roster lacking diversity. This is as good a reason as any to race lit characters, but I think it's wrong to think Danny is any more deserving than any other.

If I recall correctly, Danny Rand had to kill a dragon to earn the tattoo that gives him his iron fist. He was the first inhabitant in K'un-Lun to do so in, I don't know, but it was a long time. And this is an achievement that is apparently so minor it barely warrants mention in his backstory. You can see why people would be upset by this character.

Isn't he also the weapons of the Immortals? Or at least, that's what I've read.

But that's negated by the fact that he's one of many Immortal Weapons; and not even the most powerful of the weapons. And there's absolutely nothing stopping the writers from highlighting the problematic nature of him having this great asian power, and using it solely for a personnel vendetta in a city half way across the world.

Really I think this is moot because I feel they'll cast an actor of asian decent on the grounds that I'm not sure there's a white male actor who has the martial arts ability who can do the accent and language convincingly.

ED It:

edited 18th Sep '14 4:44:21 PM by Whowho

Danny doesn't have an accent. In the comics, he speaks perfect American English; sometimes when he's Iron Fist and not in the company of Luke, he speaks a bit more formally, since he's supposed to be a master martial artist.

I'd argue that that's still going to cause problems because Iron Fist just sounds like a Captain Ethnic no matter what way I look at him.

edited 18th Sep '14 4:48:12 PM by kostya

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

When you look at it like that, maybe they should consider taking out the whole "Trained in a secret Tibetan city and became stronger than any of their warriors" part of his backstory, have the Iron Fist just be like a technique he learned from ONE master of that technique, and the tattoo's just what a master of the Iron Fist wears to signify their mastery.

Which is why I suggested they Take a Third Option and make him anything but white or Asian.