Marvel Cinematic Universe

In the original comics, the black suit just made Peter tired because it swung around with him while he was asleep

Good thing Pete didn't have the suit during its humanitarian phase.

It was indeed originally from the '90s show, and then it was copied basically everywhere else (including in the comics). Before the '90s show did its Black Suit arc, the only thing the symbiote really did to Peter before their separation was having him do his superhero thing in his sleep in order to feed off of his adrenaline, which left the wall-crawler exhausted when he woke up ( as opposed to Insomniac-Spidey, who ironically ends up feeling refreshed after the symbiote puppets him in his sleep and leaves him to wake up on a park bench).

EDIT:

Edited by TrashJack on Mar 26th 2024 at 1:32:21 PM

Spectacular Spider-Man did both. It made Peter more aggressive and angry but also puppeted him in his sleep

Also, it deliberately tried to isolate him so they’d only have each other

The Insomniac Symbiote tried to do this as well, especially after it becomes Venom.

The MCU Symbiote wouldn't even have to do that because of the memory spell, so the hard part of its job is already done.

Man the Spectacular black suit fight is legendary

This is the kind of Sinister Six content we should get in the MCU

I can get behind another symbiote story if it represents the unhealthy way Peter is isolating himself and the solution is for him to reconnect to MJ and Ned or form new bonds

Agreed. I see where they were going with the heroic self-sacrificing thing. But Spider-Man's never really been alone. He's *always* had a network of people he cared about and who he turned to for support, even if it was narrowed down to MJ and Aunt May.

Peter's lost everyone, whether they were from the original comics or the CU, and that's not healthy for anyone.

I could even see a story where he tries to connect with the only people he has left — alternate-universe versions of himself — and develops an obsession with spending time with alt-u versions of his friends and loved ones who remember him and don't realize they're interacting with another version of himself.

Actually, that might be interesting, if he pulled a Rick-and-Morty and found a universe where he'd been killed but everyone still remembered him.

MCU Peter moves to the original Ultimate Universe

That's an interesting moral quandary. Say you're in a universe where everyone but you is dead. If you then go to a universe that is exactly the same except you are dead instead of everyone else, how weird would it be for you to take that person's place? Everyone knows that you are the same person with exactly the same personality, just from a different universe. Obviously, it would be very hard for people to get used to anyway, but what about things such as getting together with the spouse of the dead version of you? Technically, that spouse is the same in every way as your dead spouse, their just not the same version. It's like using an exact copy of the same file... except with more angst. The answer would obviously be that different people would have different reactions, though I imagine even people accepting of getting together with the alternate universe version would still find it very strange and uncanny at first.

MOM sort of deals with this, except it obviously is very different morally because Wanda isn't replacing a dead version (and there's several differences in that universe anyway). The Black Mirror episode Be Right Back deals with similar themes, though instead it is about an AI replacement. Also, while the fact it is a near identical copy to the dead spouse is a point of angst (and likely the main point), there's also hang-ups about minor differences which wouldn't occur with the multiverse example I gave (as the universes are exactly the same up until the deaths). The closest example would probably be the Doctor Who episode Doomsday where Jackie Tyler gets with an alternate version of her dead husband, though this isn't an exactly the same universe due to all the cybermen and the fact that it doesn't occur just after the husband's death, this is the closest example. That episode doesn't really explore the implications much (fair enough really, a lot happens in that episode) but that would be a fascinating thing to explore. Maybe even more fascinating given that the man Jackie ends up with will be slightly different to the man who died in that car crash many years ago (people change). Guardians 3 deals with that interestingly as well (I've just realised). I love the way it handled it, with Star Lord acknowledging that the Gamora in that film isn't exactly the same as the Gamora he loved, and trying to force a romantic relationship would just be unhealthy. Once again, this isn't 1:1 with what I suggested above because this is Starlord with pre-development Gamora, for it to be the same it would have to be a Gamora from an alternate universe who somehow survived the events of Infinity War (and is therefore the same person he knew and loved) .

There's a lot that can be done with multiverse stories and a sort of replacement (and the moral ramifications) is one such example. A Spider-Man story where he fills the void of a Spider-Man who died in Spider-Man: No Way Home and has to deal with the romantic implications with MJ and platonic implications with Ned (while also dealing with some sort of new threat) would be very interesting.

Edited by king15 on Mar 26th 2024 at 7:41:43 PM

If the divergence is relatively recent — say, one small detail determines whether everyone but you dies and you travel to a universe where that detail varied — then you really ARE the person you're replacing. There hasn't been enough time for your personality to diverge. If a person is replaced by the person they were the day before, it's still them — something really shocking would have had to have happened on that day to make a difference.

But if everyone on your world died — man, that would result in some serious psychological trauma, and trying to ignore it as though it didn't happen is a quick route to a breakdown.

That, too, could be an interesting story — how does a superhero get therapy for a traumatic event that never happened in the timeline he's in? How do you tell the difference between a time-traveler who can't prove his story and a psychotic? What if they ARE psychotic?

Yeah, that could be a really interesting story! There's no way you can fuck up a story with that premise!

Wait a minute...

Comics have a bad track record with therapy, so if a shrink is a part of a story, there'll likely be a nagging fear that the hero will get confined into a Bedlam House and left even more messed up or that the psychiatrist or psychologist or whatever ends up becoming a supervillain or was actually one all along.

Beyond the Spiderverse also touched on the concept of replacing an alternate universe doppelgänger.

Right now we only know that Miguel did it and that world got erased since it broke canon (or rather, that's why he thinks it was erased).

We don't know enough about the world to know what differences there were between this Miguel and the one he replaced, however.

Don't you mean Across? Beyond's not out yet.

Imagine though, you marry someone. They die. And then immediately are replaced by the exact same person (from an alternate universe). They're from just the same time as their counterpart from your universe died, so they're the exact same person, but it's still gonna be a bit strange. You're still, probably (naturally everyone would react differently), going to look at them and think: "That's not the person I married", and that's not wrong, or entirely right. I can imagine that happening with Parker and MJ, after coaxing she might agree to get with him, but the simple fact that he is not the exact same set of atoms that her previous Parker was would certainly be something that could cause discomfort.

I'm not saying it couldn't work, there's also the angle that you've been given the chance to be with a lost loved one and that would be great for a lot of people, I imagine, it would just be very hard to get used to.

Edited by king15 on Mar 26th 2024 at 12:12:24 PM

I did. I did. Now I must own that mistake.

I haven't seen it brought up yet, but I was curious if we know yet if any other actors from the original X-Men movies will be reprising their roles for the MCU? It seems that so far Kelsey Grammer is confirmed to return as Beast, since he cameoed at the end of The Marvels. And I guess Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds are confirmed?

Part of the reason I ask is because I am 100% certain we won't see James Mardsen back as Cyclops. For reasons.

Pyro is back for Deadpool 3.

I dunno about that. Quiet on Set only just came out, and Deadpool & Wolverine is pretty much all set to go.

If Cyclops is in the movie and it amounts to little more than a cameo, it's easy to cut. But if he appears and plays a decently big role in the movie...might be hard to work around at this point. The movie suffered enough already during the strikes.

Edited by MatthewWayne on Mar 26th 2024 at 6:14:45 AM

IIRC, filming recently wrapped for Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (where Jason Marsden plays Tom Wachowski, the Canon Foreigner who adopted Sonic), and it was filming pretty close where Deadpool & Wolverine has been. I could see him putting in a quick cameo as Cyclops if the filming schedules aligned.

Edited by TrashJack on Mar 26th 2024 at 9:27:21 AM

And is the revelation from Quiet on Set going to be enough to tank Marsden’s career to the point that any cameos he has get cut?

Probably not, unless I'm mistaken he wrote a letter in support of the abuser to the court. He didn't abuse anyone himself, correct?

Oh shit.

What did Marsden do?

Not him personally but in the docuseries Quiet on Set, Drake Bell revealed that he was sexually abused by ex-Nickelodeon dialogue coach Brian Peck and when he was convicted back in 2003 he received letters of support from several actors including James Marsden, Alan Thicke, Taran Killam and even Will Friedle.

https://ew.com/james-marsden-alan-thicke-more-wrote-letters-of-support-for-child-abuser-8608884