Mojang being sued by Zenimax Media

meh, I still found pathetic to sue Mojang just for the word SCROLL, I stick with them, screw Zenimax and whoever who thinks it was Bethesda fault, poor people, its not enough that people always confuse both Beth Softworks and Game Studios, and now this

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree.

Suing over a single word, used in the title of a card game, is just going full retard.

What was the response to that offer of a way to settle it quickly, BTW?

Guys, it's not so simple as "screw them for suing over the word 'scrolls'", it's more "This guy's threatening our trademark with an even bigger one, so we have to go through the motions and sue him, just like what happens thousands of times every month, no biggie. What? Word got out? Everyone hates us? Well, shit."

Companies sue others over trademarks all the time, it's what they have to do in order to protect their property. In fact, it's so common that you hardly ever hear about it.

Think of it this way: you own a nice, shiny pencil that you don't want anyone to touch. If you don't tell anyone that you don't want them to touch it, people are going to touch it. The lawsuit, whether they win it or not, lets people know that they are actively protecting their property, so that you don't see Ninja Theory or CAPCOM churning out TES games and making Bethesda pay them for using the title.

Please, read the comment I posted written by that nice, handsome man.

Do you mean that ridiculous Quake deathmatch proposal?

edited 6th Oct '11 1:15:52 AM by DisasterGrind

Please, read the comment I posted written by that nice, handsome man.

No thank you.

Then remain unblessed forever.

Speaking of handsome men saying intelligent things:

The Bandsaw Vigilante said:

There's also the tiny fact that Notch's "Scrolls" game also happens to be releasing on 11/11/11, the exact same date as "The Elder SCROLLS V." Nope...no coincidence at all, there.

I practice IP law. Patrick is pretty much right on the money with his analysis. What Zenimax is doing here is entirely appropriate and sound. The instant most people hear about a major studio suing an indie-developer, they immediately sympathize with the "little guy," but this person has clearly and deliberately pushed way too many explicit buttons for Zenimax NOT to take action here.

He's being a douche, and is basically daring them to defend their own trademark against his blatant infringements, and is playing the "oppressed martyr" card in the bargain.

(BTW, virtually every single major development studio is currently entangled in some type of trademark-defense lawsuit or another at any given time. This is simply the one that is soaking up a majority of the sensational headlines at the moment, but it's no bigger or smaller than the rest. If boycotting developers over routine injunctions is now a matter of principle for you, you're gonna run out of games to play pretty damn fast.)

I doubt a single game company has monopoly on 11/11/11: It's like 09/09/09, everybody wants that.

Plus, 11/11 is a special day regardless of the year (end of World War I a lot of things).

edited 6th Oct '11 1:21:35 AM by Medinoc

Right, because two fantasy games released on the same day with similar-sounding names isn't going to cause any confusion at all.

Nobody's saying that there's a monopoly on it, it's just a bit deliberate; you'd have to have gouged out your eyes to not see the potential for trouble.

edited 6th Oct '11 1:24:42 AM by DisasterGrind

I understand that it's the law.

But the thing is, it's an utterly stupid law.

Also, "Elder Scrolls" is a series name. The game is called Skyrim.

Also also, Scrolls is a card game.

It's also an absolutely necessary law. Have you ever seen one of those images of console-ripoffs like "Gamestation" or "Funstation", that go to extreme efforts to have the same packaging and design as popular and expertly-developed systems so that people who don't go to the trouble of double-checking the name (or are desperate to get them as a gift for their children for Christmas) buy them and are conned out of a lot of money? Part of the reasoning behind the law in question is to avoid the claim that "but it's not the same name and not the same product, so obviously it's the buyer's fault". Laws such as this one is not just to protect copyrighted material so that big companies can keep making their money, but to protect the customers from opportunistic vultures that try to con people with similar-sounding but ultimately quite different goods.

Gamestation, Polystation, Chintendo Vii and buddies make it to the market to start conning people however, while Mojang isn't deliberately conning anybody, yet Scrolls gets legal issues during early dev.

I think there's a proverb for this. A big tree attracts the woodman's axe?

And also because Gamestation-developers don't go out on the internet to advertise. They leech off the popularity and advertising of the "real" machines. So you don't know about a fake gameconsole before it's on the market, especially if it's manufactured in China or Singapore or someplace else where they can make such things and distribute them without immediately getting called out on it.

But that is besides the point, I'm just pointing out that this law is by no means stupid or useless.

edited 6th Oct '11 5:42:43 AM by Lemurian

I'm not even sure that from a legal standpoint, a card game and a video game are similar enough. According to the Nice classification, card games are Class 28 (Games and playthings) but video games may be either this 28 or 9 (electronic goods); the wording is not explicit enough when it comes to video games themselves (all accessories and consoles are class 9).

PS: See here. Gah! I HATE when there is an asterisk and the related footnote can't be found. If this footnote is "including video games", well it's the same class and it's perfectly their right to sue. But note that "computer software" is class 9, so we simply can't know otherwise!

Edit: It means "general term".

Well, that nails it. There is no difference between video games and other types of games, it's all class 28. So as the law sees it, they're directly in competition.

edited 6th Oct '11 6:12:46 AM by Medinoc

I don't even know what "Scrolls" is, but I do know that people are far too quick to implicate Notch in this. Notch is just a figure head. He isn't really in charge of Mojang.

I agree that it's stupid to trademark "Scrolls" over EVERYTHING, but is it worth sueing for?

I think that the non-gaming companies with product lines using 'Scrolls' in their names had better buddy up with Zenimax on this one so that at least Mojang's legal team will learn to either stop pulling shenanigans or be a bit more scrupulous with that paperwork.

And we really should leave Notch alone on his diamond encrusted yacht in the Bahamas. He's still the one in charge of bringing out official Minecraft updates after all.

x7 whatever. "Also, "Elder Scrolls" is a series name. The game is called Skyrim. Also also, Scrolls is a card game. "

No, that's wrong; the series is The Elder Scrolls, yes, but the game's name is The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. People just trim off the "The Elder Scrolls" bit because it's a mouthful to say.

Yes, it is worth suing over, current copyright laws and the fact that people are ruthless when it comes to piggybacking off of others makes it necessary. But hey, it prevents heavy-grade art theft, and I'm okay with that. Besides, this type of thing happens all the time. It's just the matter usually isn't made public for fear of this kind of backlash happening, because all companies involed usually understand that it's simply self-preservation.

edited 6th Oct '11 8:43:45 AM by DisasterGrind

x10

>9/9/09

...You mentioned that KNOWING a Touhou fan was in the thread, didn't you?

And it seemed like a pretty reasonable proposal to me.

It wasn't; it doesn't leave the paper trail that Zenimax can point to so that they can say "Hey, we've defended our franchise before, see? So no, you can't make a game called The Eldsr Scrolls V: Skyrum."

Now, if it were wars that were settled that way, then it would be pretty awesome.

edited 6th Oct '11 8:49:11 AM by DisasterGrind

Zenimax has a point, which is entirely the problem with copyright anyways. Not saying there shouldn't be copyright laws, I just think they ought to be revised so stupid stuff like this doesn't happen all the time.

What I don't get is why Zenimax didn't just settle with Mojang. I mean, they said they'd change the name and drop the copyright, why go to court? That's what makes me suspicious. If they were really just trying to protect their copyright, wouldn't they have just taken Mojang's offer?

Where'd you see that they said they'd change the name and drop the copyright? I hope you aren't refering to that 'game of Quake' proposal?

edited 6th Oct '11 9:10:12 AM by DisasterGrind

Read it in a Kotaku article. No, not the Quake tournament, as cool as that would be.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:11:02 AM by TheProffesor

Oh, you mean that dreadfully Bethesda-bashing Kotaku article? Psh. Knowing Bethesda, they'll spend their time in court offering dragon pizzas and showcasing their new Lawyer-Shout game mechanic. But hey, it's all cool.

Their proposal was to call it scrolls and never add anything to the front of the title so all follow ups would be "Scrolls: Death Magnetic," or something similar. The problem is that you've still got Mojang's very broad trademark claim and the issue of whether or not Scrolls infringes on Zenimax's trademark up in the air.

Just because it's slightly anti-Bethesda doesn't mean it's not true.

No, they were going to drop the copyright. Which completely changes everything. Without the copy right there is no threat.

edited 6th Oct '11 9:20:31 AM by TheProffesor

Never said it wasn't, home-skillet. But what's the problem here is the trademark, which is huge, and can cause problems for lots of people.

Just in case you didn't read that huge comment I initially left here, I'll link you to an article summing the whole thing up rather neatly.

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/223591/bethesda-refused-trademark-compromises-with-mojang/

edited 6th Oct '11 9:31:15 AM by DisasterGrind