Move Haruhi examples from 'anime and manga' to 'literature'.: Haruhi Suzumiya

Although it's better known as an anime, the fact is that it started as a series of light novels. Although Fate Stay Night and Higurashi are better known for their anime adaptations, examples from those series are listed under Video Games, as both series were originally video games. So why shouldn't the same treatment be given to Haruhi?

You enjoy reading this.

Light novels have always been grouped with anime and manga. (and BS... the anime is far better known... there is a reason for Endless Eight)

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

In which case I shall broaden my proposal for all light novel series. After all...

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Anime is to cartoons as manga is to comics as light novels are to literature. Logically, we'd sort them all into comics and animation and whatnot, but we don't because they happen to share a very particular audience and set of tropes. They should stay in that category, especially since most of them that we know of also have anime adaptations (because they don't get translated into English if they're not already popular with English-speakers).

Also, I believe Visual Novels are kind of getting their own category, slowly. They certainly don't belong in video games either.

edited 24th Jul '11 4:40:40 PM by Clarste

Yeah, when I think of literature, I think of an entire medium that I will never bother to read because they don't have anything else associated with them. I'm never going to read War And Peace because it doesn't have an anime or video game associated with it. I WILL read any novels associated with an anime series because it has an anime series though, even if the series came afterward.

Because each adaption is supposed to have it's own example in it's own section.

Fight smart, not fair.

The problem with this is that there's a chance that the novels will be adapted into anime, so putting examples in another category would be kinda pointless if that happens.

Then again, it's just an if, so I see no problem putting examples in literature instead of anime. I think people just put examples in the medium which they associate the work the most.

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Are the adaption trope lists fairly close to a proper subset? In that case having a different page for the anime simply means a massive copy and paste job.

"Show us the Galaxy Warp."

The only tropes that they dont share are those that havent been animated yet... Its the same thing as Manga series with an Anime running at the same time. We dont separate them we just spoiler the tropes that arnt animated yet.

Light Novels Anime and Manga are pretty much the same thing and same art etc. (Light Novels almost always come with Anime inspired art or a straight manga section like Baka Test [1]◊, Ore Imo [2]◊.)

edited 24th Jul '11 5:46:23 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

That's not technically true. Both were originally visual novels. Should they not be in that namespace?

Really? I mean...one's a book with text, another's a video with animation. They're not the same medium, even remotely.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:46:59 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Except for its all the same... they all use Anime style, Anime Stereotypes, etc tropes. We do not separate Manga and anime, a Light Novel to Anime there isnt any difference as well.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

Except that the work gains an audiovisual element which it lacked. That's not a minor change.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:51:01 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Except for the visual tropes. I'm still inclined to put an example in all of them, unless it really does use the trope differently.

Fight smart, not fair.

I thought we kept those together for the same reason Anime and Manga are. There's only few differences between the adaptions, mostly censorship. People usually just mention the change near the end of the example.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:56:11 PM by No9

I don't think it needs separate pages; I simply think it shouldn't be in the Anime namespace.

EDIT:It's in "main" now, so we definitely need to do something.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:57:09 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Honestly, light novels do use the same visual tropes as anime and manga. In text. Which is kind of bizarre, but they do.

This kind of runs into something that bugs me about this site: We have a section called Anime and Manga, and yet we differentiate between comic books and "western animation". I kinda wish we'd call it "Eastern works" instead, but mweh.

Anyway, there IS a logic to this. After all, it seems the majority of Anime is based directly off Manga or Light novels to the point of simply adapting existing stories, and it'd be stupid to list Ranma 1/2, Death Note, Haruhi Suzimaya, etc TWICE on each page. Contrast with X-Men or Spiderman or Justice League, where the comics, various animated series, video games, and movies all tell completely different stories.

To put it another way, if you wanted to list Haruhi Suzimaya under literature, then you'd have to list it under anime and manga too, because pretty much everything that happens in the novels, happens in the anime, (or will once the anime catches up). And it would end up showing up twice on almost EVERY. SINGLE. PAGE.

As a partial example, I forget which page it was, but it had Batman showing up in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. It was self-referencing and done for lulz, but that's what you would end up with by splitting Anime and manga and Light Novels. Two or Three categories all with mostly the same entries. And that wouldn't be funny. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest adding a tip to the Good Style Guide that if a property or work shows up in one category, it adaptations into other media need not show up on the same page unless the trope is being handled differently.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:58:49 PM by EmperorSteele

^^To an extent, yes, but having four or five still pictures in an entire novel and having several thousand frames in the anime is a pretty big change.

edited 24th Jul '11 5:58:22 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

No, I mean they describe the same visual tropes using text. If a character is angry it'll say they have Cross-Popping Veins on their forehead. That kind of thing. It's not just pictures: the anime aesthetic affects the writing too.

edited 24th Jul '11 6:00:25 PM by Clarste

Third paragraph. This. It wouldn't be a problem if it was like Umineko, which will not have its second half adapted into anime. For this series, it's just going to be redundant.

edited 24th Jul '11 6:01:24 PM by LiberatedLiberater

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^^Ah. You've got a fair point.

Well, anyway, I'm getting sidetracked, as all I really care about is what namespace and folder it should be in. I think works should be in the folder for the original version (not in both), unless the trope involved is unique to the adaptation.

edited 24th Jul '11 6:02:04 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

x10 Well they get the visual aspect too though in text (its a little strange sometimes) they also all come with Manga style art, they can get Adaptation Dye-Job s and other things. (I cant find the actual insert art for haruhi at the moment but she even got a Hair color change to match the anime after it aired Book 1◊ Book 9◊) They are "book with manga-style illustrations".

I would never look for Haruhi, Baka Test, Bakemonogari, Durarara, Full Metal Panic, Gosick, Hidan No Aria, Ichigo One Hundred Percent, Kanokon, Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn, Toradora Maria-sama Ga Miteru, Ookami-san, Ro-Kyu-Bu!, Toaru Majutsu No Index, Ore Imo, Denpa Onna To Seishun Otoko or Infinite Stratos in Literature. Why? Because they arn't that famous as well as most will never come out here in the US because publishers have stated that most are not profitable these all have animes or manga. (Haruhi is the exception and even then the anime is still a ton more famous)

Should we split Yonkoma from Manga then? seriously its all just messy.

edited 24th Jul '11 6:48:45 PM by Raso

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Argh. Why can't everything just fall neatly into simple categories? It's almost as if all fiction industries haven't been trying to make this wiki's job easier since the dawn of storytelling.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

The illustrations aren't really that important. I mean, Harry Potter had illustrations at the beginning of each chapter in the version I read, and I wouldn't classify it as a comic book. Yeah, Light Novels use anime-style drawings, but that's simply because it's the standard style of non-artsy drawing in Japan. The tropes used are much more important than a dozen drawings scattered throughout a 200 page book.

I think it's better that we just put it in the category in which it's most notable for. Which in this case, it's anime.

edited 24th Jul '11 6:21:54 PM by LiberatedLiberater

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