TropeDecay: Nintendo Hard

Which criteria on the page are objective, now?

Wait a sec. Renaming a trope might be a big deal and requiring a 2:1 majority, but putting a banner on a trope should be routine. If 51% of the tropers think the page is subjective, then it should be flagged subjective. I see no huge drawbacks or pitfalls here.

Aside from that, if people claim it is objectively defined but cannot state what that objective definition is, then clearly it isn't objective anyway.

Concur.

I most wholeheatedly disagree.

I want this redesignated as subjective, don't get me wrong. But deciding to change the rules after the fact? That's just gaming the system and showing a mockery of the rules.

And don't try to tell me that it isn't changing the rules or gaming the system. Adding a new rule is changing it. Trying to apply new rules to old votes is gaming it.

Face it - we lost this one this time. Bitter pill to swallow, to be sure, particularly since it appears there are plenty of folks who don't understand what the word "subjective" actually means. But changes to the heart of an article happen two ways - with a 2:1 majority, or effectively convincing a mod to the change. We have succeded at neither.

If you want to propose that adding/removing a subjective banner pass on a simple 50% +1 vote, propose that in the Wiki Talk forum, and implement it on a future vote. To do otherwise is to pretend that the rules only apply when they work in your favor... and the rules are the last thing that should be that subjective.

edited 21st Aug '11 12:26:37 PM by 32_Footsteps

I don't know that any of what you said is actually true. In fact, I think it's specifically not. The rules of this wiki are extremely loosely defined to grant the moderation more power to enforce them as necessary rather than by the letter of the law. They are subjective.

We have proved beyond any reasonable person's ability to doubt that nobody can objectively define this trope. Get a mod in here and tell us why we haven't so we can have a discussion on this subject and change their mind.

First, I don't think you actually understand that what I said that isn't personal opinion is, in fact, true. I can back up all the statements of fact, and it wouldn't behoove me to lie anyhow because I also voted to reclassify. If anything, my only impetus for lying would be to argue that we should ignore the crowner results.

Beyond that, if you want to argue to a mod on the issue, you're just as capable as anyone else of hollering for one. Though I don't think it'll help - we've already had one in here who was able to look over everything and didn't make a change. I'm not going to sit and cherry-pick which mod to consult to get my way.

Besides, the proposal to make subjective tags subject to a 50% +1 vote is completely different from the topic of this thread. If nothing else, starting a new thread for what I believe is a msiguided crusade will make it more likely someone will pay attention to the proposal.

You misunderstand. I don't think it's a proposal. I don't think there's a rule on the subject at all. I think there is a tradition, which provides the suggestion of rules without actual rules.

Please point to a policy page that outlines these "rules" you speak of. If you can't do this, then you don't have much of a point here.

I never said they were rules. I'm saying that you're trying to propose new rules - which you are.

At any rate, this has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I'm hollering for a lock.

Spark, you don't get to institute a new rule unilaterally, without discussion, hidden in the middle of a thread about a specific trope in TRS.

If you want to change the standards about what constitutes a consensus, make a thread for it in Wiki Talk, and make your proposal. But keep in mind that you're going to need reasons to change from "consensus" to "simple majority" that are very persuasive.

This crowner failed. This thread is being locked.