Canadian Government to strip citizenship

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/07/20/pol-kenney-immigration-visas.html

The Tory government of Canada has conducted a long-term investigation into people who acquired citizenship fraudulently and will strip them of citizenship. These people will have the right to contest the decision in federal court. Since 1947 in Canada, there have only been 70 people who have been stripped of citizenship, the current government is stating that it will strip 1800 people of citizenship today and that those people will be unlikely to contest the decision in court (for what reason the immigration minister thinks that... I have no idea).

edited 21st Jul '11 10:48:48 AM by breadloaf

Tax dollars well-spent, I'm sure.

..wait, do Canadians spend dollars?

edited 21st Jul '11 10:53:30 AM by johnnyfog

Yes... yes they do.

I'm guessing each court case is going to cost a million dollars at least. You slap that onto the fact these people aren't actively breaking laws. They got their citizenship fraudulently (which deserves punishment) but are otherwise productive members of society who pay taxes while working (unlike illegals).

Okay, now I'm also reading that some of the people to be stripped of citizenship never even committed the fraud themselves but had their paperwork done through shoddy agencies.

But why should they continue to get the rights, benefits, and privileges of citizenship if they didn't obtain it legitimately?

Perhaps they should give them another opportunity to renew their citizenship legitimately instead of doing something counterproductive to their nation.

I'm not sure phrasing it in a moral sense is the right way to look at it. Looking at it in terms of budget seems smarter - is the net loss to society of processing all this greater than the net loss caused by harboring those illegitimate citizens?

Based on the Canadian government's past actions, it seems more likely to be officially justified with the same 'blame the foreigner' mentality that's plaguing the US re: Mexico, rather than being based on any practical considerations of benefit weighed against cost.

The people who were victimized by incompetent agencies don't deserve to pay for that agency's mistakes. The agency should be sued and the victims should be given a free trip through citizenship processing again. You need to attack that kind of problem at the source, not blame the symptom.

I've gotta say, every time I hear something about Canada these days, it's depressing. Tradition is that when the US screws up, we say, we'll move to Canada. Now that's not looking so hot, and Mexico is right out. And I don't think jolly old England can hold all of us.

edited 21st Jul '11 11:25:42 AM by Karkadinn

We just need to convince Switzerland to speak English.

Other than that, I agree.

edited 21st Jul '11 11:40:17 AM by Yej

Well generally the argument centers on moral or legal concerns. To me, I look at it in terms of economics which makes me very unpopular. The whole "What about people who came here legitimately, how would they feel?", well honestly, are we willing to spend billions on this to kick out 1800 people who otherwise would just be working and paying taxes? Yes, it is wrong, but if they never raised the issue in the first place, it wouldn't be in people's minds to feel bad about.

Hardliners constantly say whatever it costs but are never willing to pay up.

edited 21st Jul '11 12:06:32 PM by breadloaf

I'm more worried about the "presumed guilty until they can come to court and defend themselves" setup they've got going here. Isn't it supposed to be the other way around?

If, in theory, they have the ability to process all 1800 cases in court (which they should, because how can they throw that out as the only possible defense for these people if they can't), why not just process them all in court? Surely that's the more legitimate method.

In terms of economics, how is it they came to the conclusion these people aren't paying taxes and so forth?

edited 21st Jul '11 1:12:52 PM by deathjavu

@Karkadinn: hings have never been better up here actually. And taking a look at the UK right now...

I support ths. Canadian citizenship should be valued as a prized title. Besides, the money stays in teh country anyways.

edited 21st Jul '11 1:25:44 PM by Erock

They are paying taxes and stuff, that was never the accusation, it's that they earned their citizenship through fraudulent means, or they themselves were tricked by bad paperwork.

So I primarily don't support the move on the following reasons:

• It's going to cost a lot of court time and thus money to go through this, so I rather they had just slapped these people with fines and be done with it (if they slipped the system, they slipped the system, i rather jail the people who are providing the illegal service than go after taxpayers)
• There's bigger fish to fry, so while we blow a billion or two on doing this, it comes out of money that would have been used to settle immigrants and get them jobs faster, meaning less tax income and worse conditions for legitimate immigrants