General Digimon Topic

When I was a kid watching the dub, I just looked away from my tv at Arukenimon and Mummymon's deaths.

Digimon's violence is high on the scale compared to what? Gundam? Transformers? Dragon Ball?

It's still rather high regardless.

The fanservice is hardly low either, albeit it is toned down from the original version. I don't mind that at all, as it's more tolerable to me here. The violence is hardly low, but it doesn't feel completely overdone like many mature series(Kill La Kill, Akira, albeit the former is played more for laughs at times, or at least the sexual stuff purely is).

Pretty Cure also has some pretty brutal fisticuffs for a show for little girls, too:

edited 29th Apr '15 6:21:44 PM by Demongodofchaos2

Kill la Kill isn't really a "mature" series, it's a shounen series where the only thing out of the norm is the sexual harrassment Ragyo subjects Satsuki to. Akira counts, though.

edited 29th Apr '15 8:34:40 PM by wehrmacht

Kill La Kill is blatantly meant for mature audiences. The constant sexual jokes and extremely violence are nowhere near good enough for Teens, even if that applies best to the US. It's a mature show overall. It was chosen solely for Adult Swim's toonami line-up because it has too much that it can show on something like Saturday morning, like Pokemon is. That is also no less an anime, but is slightly more toned down than the Japanese version a bit. Mostly sometimes in fanservice bits at best. And removing beyond extreme violence or violent acts(like the warden constantly whipping out a gun during the Tauros episode. It also removed a few other things due to controversies like the main Jynx episode due to her blackface look. However, the Porygon episode gave a lot of epilepsy to kids as is... due to Pikachu no less, but still would be dumb to translate).

Kill La Kill was not designed, even in the dub, easily for teens. It's more tolerable than say, Akira, but it's still a very bloody show, has some pretty immense fanservice(even if played for laughs), and obviously the dub won't remove the swears when showed on Adult Swim. Some don't mind it, and it's not as ridiculous as some shows, but it's still catered to adult audiences regardless.

Damn, Pretty Cure is hardcore.

I actually looked up where Kill la Kill initially aired and the same block it was on also aired Knights of Sydonia and Persona 4: The Golden, so I guess saying it is meant for mature audiences is not really incorrect.

However I would still argue that outside of the fanservice (which is not foreign to shounen, I might add, just not usually to this degree) and creepy sexual abuse it's not really much more adult than your average shounen like Bleach or Naruto. You have to realize that you can't apply the same standards to anime as you would western television, the japanese are far more tolerant of what they allow young children to be exposed to. That's why series like Bleach and Attack on Titan are marketed towards teenagers and young adults in the west, they run in magazines meant for little boys and younger teenagers.

edited 29th Apr '15 8:58:13 PM by wehrmacht

I didn't say every anime was mature or even compared it to things like Bleach. Bleach is not really catered to adults by design, but has enough mature content on Adult Swim for it.

Kill La Kill is heavily based around revealing outfits and blood. When it comes to certain countries, this gives an automatic higher rating, and it's not hard to see why. It's pretty mature as a show in itself. Having a super revealing outfit isn't going to cut it outside of MA rated shows in the US, something that really isn't a big thing in even Bleach. It has a few moments here and there(I think they may be Anime-specific though), but is more about the violence than anything else.

Kill La Kill comes off heavily as a comedic series with violence and forms of sexual content as its bread and butter. This is why it's catered towards mature audiences. Even if it's played more for laughs, it's still very mature content. Just because some teens watch it doesn't mean it isn't catered heavily towards adults in the US. And very justified too. I don't compare it to something like Bleach because Bleach is a beyond different show that even the Manga wasn't raunchy or anything from what I read. It doesn't matter even if KLK is a different genre, it's presented very much in a more mature manner than some shows. Among the actual shows on Adult Swim that are anime, it's the most sexual of them, and one of the most violent available. Deadman Wonderland does take the violence up hard, and so does Attack on Titan, but at least with AOT, it's not a seriously sexual show at all. It's easy to lower AOT's ratings with a few things toned down, namely the blood and swearing to a degree. KLK cannot be toned down without completely ruining the entire premise. Even if it slightly works for some series(I'd say the Mortal Kombat cartoon only worked because they made all the heroes such assholes that you could still feel the violent tension of the original games, just done differently. It wasn't devoid of violence either, just done in a manner that removes blood, but still has tons of battles and such. Hell, the story modes in later MK games upped the characters being jerks to match the show a bit more closely and even a character was ported into the games. They even referenced it directly with Sonya's "Kombat Time" in Mortal Kombat 9). Tangent aside, it has to be done just right without losing the focus of a series. There is really no way to make KLK a T rating in the US without completely disowning what makes it interesting. The sexual humor has to be mostly removed beyond jokes that are near impossible to get or show even less(like the bath scene in Adventure 01 they did in Season 2 of all things was just toned down enough, but barely. That show got away with some crazy stuff anyway) that normal. They don't actually show body parts in any manner, always censoring them in a funny way, but it's still pretty bad. Adult Swim still has to directly censor anything on TV, but thankfully the show has nothing to censor directly. It always only went just to the edge. The violence is the most bloody yet, with only Deadman Wonderland and Akira coming close to being two animes that are all about blood, and the Street Fighter II V anime(although I think that's what made it such a boring anime as is. SF was not a bloody series by any means, and it didn't much fit. But it had other issues, like barely being 10 minute episodes, with the rest being a long recap and the other being a long preview of each episode. You could get almost the same thing by watching the first preview, the first recap, and mostly just previews. You miss some few things, sure, but there's not much to miss in the first place).

Yeah, a lot to say, I admit.

So wait, people didn't know that piemon isn't pronounced like pie the food?

Also, bah, I prefer mugendramon.

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but NND will be streaming season 1 as a refresher so to speak.

• May 4: Episodes 1 to 19
• May 5: Episodes 20 to 39
• May 6: Episodes 39 to 54

Streaming begins at 5PM on all three days. Not sure which timezone it's supposed to be (probably GMT+9), or if it's restricted to Japan. After episode 54 ends, there will be some kind of announcement for tri. It's all unsubbed of course.

edited 30th Apr '15 2:52:20 AM by HanabiraKage

Well, Piemon makes more sense to pronounce like Pierrot since that's the basis. Piedmon is a little different since the Dubs only had one way to say it.

Also, MUGEN even means Machine in general, so it's a pretty and logical dub name. It looks like a Machine Dragon. I also feel it works better for the dub. Especially if they ever have him digivolve to Chaosdramon or Hi Machinedramon by actually saying his name like with most digivolutions.(very few are silent) I think it just rolls off the tongue better. But I haven't actually heard them say Mugendramon in Japanese myself. I don't think it works as well said in a normal US-based voice. Not even sounding it out myself does it work. Keep in mind, I'm only saying in actual voiced scripts. The old name works fine too. I mean, it's no Slush Angemon.

Due to the anatomy of a whale (no defined 'separation' between head and the rest of the body), when I first saw it happen years ago, it didn't register to me that Metal Sea Dramon actually shot Whamon right through the head. I always thought he just got shot through the back or something.

Then was the way Metal Sea Dramon got killed by being drilled right through from nose to tail.

Those were...kinda dark.

Like said before, Digimon got away with a lot of stuff. Hell, the whole Myotismon arc was bad, but my god, when he kidnapped people, it got even worse. The fact you could outright see how terrified those poor children were, outright crying. It's an extremely dark show. It wasn't that dark during the Etemon arc to a slight degree, but the other arcs in Adventure 1 were pretty bad. Angemon was being played as a full death, Leomon being controlled was played for drama, and the black gears alone were just horrific. The black spirals/rings were actually pretty tame compared to the first season, honestly. It's when they started killing Digimon(and the digidestined didn't mind so much with the artificial ones, but some of them were horrified they were killing real ones. Albeit, they're all artificial, but it wasn't played up that way). It got really dark after the Digimon Emperor's Arc was over. And got even worse the second the fight was brought to the real world.

Tamers was dark, but damn, the first two seasons were ridiculous. To be honest, Fusion is the lightest so far, and then season 2 came around and all of Mikey's work was for naught. We saw Digimon die, sacrifice themselves, etc.(albeit, the end of the first season had tons of Digimon come back in heroic forms, so that was a nice change of pace) But they did up the darkness in part 2. Vampire Land did not help. Note, I'm not talking about the Sub that's finished, since I never actually saw it despite reading the TVT page. I know a bit, but I'd rather wait till it's finished in the other regions(or at the minimum the US, since that's accessible to quite a few people, hopefully legally) so it's not too spoileriffic.

Indirect Active Transport

Less violent that gundam, more than transformers, about even with dragonball considering that even though death is cheap and some violence is played for laughs, the injuries are real and not simply ignored. But I meant comparison with most pg 13/teens material, even though digimon is kodomo or in other words, Y7.

Irene

Actually mugen means "infinite", and I would guess he has that name because he first appeared as the final boss inside infinity mountain in Digimon World 1. And honestly I don't see how hi-mugendramon is an evolution since in xros wars, it consisted of actually getting the back cannons that should have been there in the first place. It's more like the mugendramon there was a "lo-mugendramon" that needed a xross to reach a normal state.

Also don't forget that myotismon was a proper vampire:

edited 30th Apr '15 6:46:41 AM by lgcruz

Well, machine is also a propr translation, considering the dub name and the game engine MUGEN being called machine. Also, Digimon didn't feally tone down death heavily when it came up.

That is officially Hi Machinedramon's form though. He's likely just an expy of Chaosdramon.

Well, not really. Dream, fantasy, infinite. The later just happens to be the most common meaning.

edited 30th Apr '15 7:15:57 AM by lgcruz

On the discussiong of Sex vs Violence. I think the dub is being judged, not the Japanese version, I mean the discussion started because someone said the dub allowed more violence while frowning on sex. I dont think the dub is bad just because it censored Mervamon and allowing more violence, Mervamon REALLY was too much, even if you are lenient with the censorship. Women arent being discriminated because of a censored Cameltoe, you dont see many uncensored full frontal penises on Nicktoons do you?

And the dub censored the fuck out of the more brutal Adventure deaths. Only Tamers got away with more. So there's no hipocrisy there.

edited 30th Apr '15 8:01:53 AM by AegisP

I think one of the best things about the Digimon dub was that it was explicitly set in Japan. This was a time when a lot of early shonen dubs were trying and failing to hide that fact, such as the clumsy references to the U.S. in Yu-Gi-Oh!

Though it still gave the characters more English-sounding nicknames for... some reason.

Mugendramon is fought at Mugen mountain, and its finisher is Mugen cannon. Theme naming.

And no, it doesn't mean machine, please don't jump to that kind of conclusion. Gallant is not a synonim of Duke, for example.

Also, not everybody is american in this site. The dub I grew up with used the names of the American one (and the first episode of Adventure was adapted from that dub), but the rest of the series followed the original script. Analyzing a single dub, or giving it priority over the source material, can be easily seen as shortsighted.

And the jogress of Mugendramon and Chimeramon is an infinite chimera dragon monster.

As a kid I got that the characters floating around in the transformation sequences were Japanese characters, but when Izzy said they were too far south to see the Northern Lights I somehow concluded that they were in South America. I guess I didn't know how far south Japan actually is XD;

yeah, the brazilian dub was like that too. it was kind of weird because they changed the opening to be an adaptation of the american one, but the actual bgm was the original japanese. Which I'm grateful for, since that means we got Brave Heart.

also yeah, mugendramon is a way more badass name when you take into consideration what "mugen" means.

edited 30th Apr '15 11:31:37 AM by wehrmacht

Everybody in my age group is able to sing the Castillian version of Butterfly, cheesy as the lyrics may be.

Still better than the Digirap, which just felt obnoxious in contrast. But, again, personal opinion due to imprinting and all that.

we didn't get butterfly. i only heard it years later and i was very sad that we never got a chance to hear it ):