Bad definition: Beyond The Fourth Wall

Argh. The definition spends more words on saying what the trope isn't than on what the trope really is. The examples don't seem to follow a consistent rule either, despite even more caveats.

Even in the examples folders there are notes about what this trope is not. Furthermore, several of the examples are straight Breaking the Fourth Wall.

I'm still not sure I understand how this is really different from Breaking the Fourth Wall. I get the distinction made, but it seems an artificial one, and the concept of the "audience" influencing the plot and/or interacting with the characters (as opposed to the inverse) could easily be folded into the description of Breaking the Fourth Wall.

I mean, this is a noteworthy topic, but I don't think it is a whole new trope, and I think the potential for example redundancy is vast.

I'm not sure, but I think that this is intended to be the inversion of Breaking the Fourth Wall — instead of the character acknowledging the audience and choosing to interact with it, it's the audience initiating contact with the character.

I think.

Someone getting heckled or yelled at from the "fake" audience or Peanut Gallery sounds like what this should be.

The Fourth Wall can theoretically be broken from either side, it's just that it most commonly occurs from within. If an audience member gets up on stage and starts heckling members of a play, but they ignore it, the Fourth Wall is otherwise intact.

Recent YKTTW archive: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=k48eqkcgdou4cw3hpieq57fg

So ... isn't this related to Deus ex Machina?

edited 13th Jul '11 9:09:40 AM by Stratadrake

I do acknowledge that this trope has a pretty negative and downright terrible description. What it really needs is a rewrite and some better examples, I'm working on that now.

Certainly this is related to Deus ex Machina, however that trope is (comparatively) far more subtle.

Essentially, Deus ex Machina is when a plot is solved by an Epic Level asspull. Beyond The Fourth Wall is when something affects the plot from outside the material in a very definite and obvious way. For example, an audience member tossing Popeye a can of spinach or the Author nipping into his or her own work to lend the characters a boat (or a character sneaking into our world to steal one). Note that this does not have to be at all positive, the author could add something dangerous 'to make things more interesting' or for some other reason.

Example:

• The Love Hina Again OV As have Ken Akamatsu, the mangaka (writer and artist) of the original manga, lending some of the girls money, as well as a boat. This is, in both respects, a textbook example of this trope.

edited 17th Jul '11 9:18:20 AM by Hadashi

0k, I've made some alterations. I think it looks much better now. Tell me what you think!