DEATH BATTLE

Never forget that Saul Goodman only paid someone for 3 hours of work, and they found Walt immediately. Sure it was very early in his career, a short career no less, but by the height of it all, there was a sketch of his likely look, he only ever operated in one particular location, and he had numerous of people who knew about him, so Light would simply have to find out which person in this particular place, with particular connection and go from there.

If anything, Light possibly wouldn't need Ryuk to find out. Hell, he could just find Saul Goodman, a well known Lawyer in the area who likely has the connections.

Edited by Mrbda241 on Apr 13th 2024 at 10:30:24 AM

I was thinking of that earlier, but since it happened after Saul had already met Walt and Jesse when they fake-kidnapped him... and that only happened after they had approached him to get Badger out of trouble, so it's unknown how much Saul had to work on. When Mike comes to his office to pass on that he found 'Heisenberg', he says "Walter Hartwell White," which indicates at that Saul didn't know his name... or at least full name, but given that Saul had literally been hired by Heisenberg by this point, he probably still had more to go on that the average guy.

Light still definitely has an easier time finding Heisenberg than Walter does finding Kira though.

...

This is way more interesting than 'Comic Book Character X who can punch with 50 gigatons of TNT (and chain-scales to someone who can punch with 200,000!) VS Anime character who split some clouds and once moved 'faster than the eye can see'.

EDIT: Oh, another weird unique thing to take into account is that Light would have a rough time using the Death Note on Saul Goodman given that his real name is still Jimmy McGill, so unless Light finds that out first, the Death Note can't do dick. And it would be unusual for Light to go to the effort to find it out if he only mildly suspects that this lawyer knows anything.

That could be the basis for a great fanfic; Light writes 'Saul Goodman' in the Death Note just because he's annoyed by Saul's terrible late-night ads, but then he keeps showing up with more and more cheesy adverts, leading Light on a vendetta against this guy who has no idea that he's even being targeted by a serial killer, but somehow keeps evading him by sheer dumb luck.

Edited by Elmo3000 on Apr 13th 2024 at 6:54:32 PM

Light also has a hard limit to the number of attempts he can make. He can only try four times after that he's out of luck. So, if he tries Saul, Frank, or Bruce and nothing happens that's a big blow.

Edited by Freshwater on Apr 13th 2024 at 11:07:21 AM

One thing I wanted to know back around the time that Treehouse of Horror was aired: Who could kill the other user first with their respective Death Thing, Light or Lisa? They know of the other's identity and that they're going to kill them. Who'd be first to off the other?

Edited by chino514 on Apr 13th 2024 at 6:01:07 AM

Probably Light, since his Death Note allows him to just leave off a cause and time of death and thus kill Lisa with a heart attack in 40 seconds, whereas Lisa is stuck having to waste time coming up with a unique method of death to kill him that she hadn't previously used on anyone else, as per the rules of her Death Tome.

the nature of parody, the original thing almost always trumps the ripoff.

and the one exception involved Shirou Emiya

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Apr 13th 2024 at 6:49:09 AM

Alright so Light's major move that aided him in figuring out L's identity was by joining the JTF and set the precedent for the rest of his plans. But what else can he really do besides that? Walter is the only one here that does hire people, but at the same time he would be pretty paranoid about letting anyone in because of his secret identity of Heisenberg.

There really isn't actually anything else I can think of that he could do, I mean yeah some have discussed Light using Death Note to do something like "Killing people close to Batman/Walter/Columbo into revealing clues about their real identities".

Which at first did sound like a good idea......... Until you read that a second time out-loud just how INSANELY improbable that Light would somehow luck out on this plan working. He would still need something to possibly coincide that Batman and Walter are their respective alter-egos and for Columbo it be insanely difficult since he could just lie about the names of his associates if he believes Light to be a suspect or anything along those lines.

Batman who in-Universe, people believe is a Government agent rather than a depressed Billionaire playboy who decided to go out trained and studied about Martial Arts, Computer Hacking, Medical Science, Forensic Pathology, etcetera to the point that he makes touted Geniuses of these respective fields look like stumbling toddlers?

Walter White was literally only remembered as just a chemist teacher that got fired from some random High School, which is still incredibly broad even if it's comparatively easier than doing so for Batman?

Edited by Candid-Jury on Apr 13th 2024 at 9:53:00 AM

this inspiring some wacky AU ideas TBH.

Imagine this random Japanese teen transferring to the school Walter got fired from or a Batman elseword involution supernatural murders in Gotham.

One thing that I'm having trouble deciding if it's legit or not, is that- okay, so I'm not generally a fan of "Light finds a hard-to-find person's name by just killing the people around them and asking them to reveal the name before they die," because I feel like it's out of character, and it's not really a good demonstration of his intelligence or cunning. He tries it once against L, it doesn't work, and I don't think he ever tries it again. Also, if this is happening while there's a dude named Kira killing everyone by knowing their name, presumably people's names are going to be treated with a lot more protection, but that's not my point, my point is...

It's a running joke in Columbo that we never find out his name. None of his colleagues ever address him as anything except 'Columbo', he's introduced as Detective Columbo, or Lieutenant Columbo, and... on the one hand, it's clearly just a gag, obviously his wife knows his name (although I don't think the audience ever finds out what her name is either) but... the whole situation blurs the line between "It's a joke, obviously the people around Columbo probably know his full name," and "Okay but nobody ever actually says it, which means we cannot be certain that they actually do." He might just be known at the station as Columbo. Given that his job involves tracking down murderers, it's probably for the best that he doesn't broadcast it.

So, if Light can't catch Columbo but knows the name of one of his colleagues and writes in the Death Note "Derek Derekman (yes, the guy from Jason VS Michael Myers, he somehow survived and became a detective) will have a heart attack in 42 seconds, but first he will ring the number of this burner phone and clearly state and then spell the entire name of Lieutenant Columbo," then logically, Derek Derekman might know Columbo's name, but it's never been confirmed. So I'm not sure how this should be treated. It wouldn't be the first time Death Battle have taken a joke feat at complete face value, but I'm not sure whether it even qualifies as a joke or not.

Light also used Raye Penber to obtain other police names, so he's not above using the DN's geas to rack up other kills.

The only trick is that the Death Note can't just magically make someone do something impossible. If the target can't fulfill the conditions written, including divulging information they do not already know, then they default to a heart attack.

So Light can and would write say "Detective Derekman looks up Columbo's police records and faxes the information to a designated library printer, then shoots himself at home" and get Columbo's name that way. But if he just writes "Detective Derekman reveals Columbo's name" despite Derekman not knowing it, then he just gets the default "Dies 40 seconds later by heart attack" death.

What's even funnier about "using people around Columbo" is that while we never see his wife, we do see Columbo's nephew (in No Time to Die).

...and he also doesn't call his uncle by his first name. Nor is the Nephew called Columbo (He's the son his sister so has his father's last name).

And according to Lupin III does Columbo have a son named Bolonco.

Yes, this is real.

This is the weirdest James Bond crossover I have ever heard of.

I think I need to find a streaming service where I can watch Columbo now. This sounds entertaining.

I think its on peacock

I think they're all on Peacock? I'm lucky to live in Britain (never thought I would ever say that) where at any time of day, Columbo is always on at least one TV channel at all times... somewhere.

I have to admit that if I was only familiar with either character from battleboards, I would probably think Light would win due to superior smarts and, well, having a magic notebook, but I really can't stress enough how much Columbo's personality is practically tailor-made to play into Light's weaknesses. Light is very smart, but he's also aware that he's very smart, and this leads to him frequently underestimating those around him. Columbo's entire shtick is staying under suspicion under the guise of a mild-mannered, clumsy, affable but not particularly smart detective. And then you realise he's repeatedly outsmarted and caught politicians, spies, doctors, his own boss the chief of police, and the head of a MENSA branch. And he did it specifically by playing on the guy's ego and overconfidence, presenting him with 85% of a completed case, bluffing the rest of the 15%, and exclaiming how incredibly smart the rest of the MENSA members are, because they helped piece everything together. And he repeatedly goads the guy until he eventually snaps "No! Your explanation is ludicrous nonsense! This is what the killer would have done!" and puts the final piece into place.

Point is, if Light was targeting Columbo, it would probably be, like, priority number twelve on his to-do list that day. And when his first attempt wouldn't work, it would be priority eleven the next day. And ten the next. And Light gradually grows more annoyed as this bumbling oaf who seems to be barely 1% the detective L was, repeatedly avoids his attempts to discretely discover his name.

The main problem with doing a Light Vs. detective battle is that it cannot function as a Versus analysis. It can't be quantified in the same way as "Columbo hits with 36 tons of TNT and Light can withstand 45 tons of TNT."

Writing out a complex game of cat and mouse between detective and killer as they both weave around each other, filled with twists and turns and the complications of other characters' effects on the narrative can be very interesting. But it's not Death Battle. You've basically reinvented the concept of writing fiction.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 14th 2024 at 8:43:11 AM

I mean, literally every Death Battle is kind of a fanfiction, when you think about it.

I think of Light VS Columbo as a VS Debate where they're roughly equal in stats so it comes down to their abilities. VS Debates are at their most dull when they're boiled down entirely to "X punches with 400 tons of TNT and Y can withstand 500 tons of TNT," because it completely removes the personality, the abilities, what actually makes the characters them.

Deathbattle so often results with characters who don't even resemble themselves. Every time they for example bring up a transformer the characters feats just do match the character in question at all you're left wondering wtf you're watching.

Yeah, that's the catch with Versus analysis. It inherently distorts characters beyond recognition.

But not doing all of that stuff isn't, like, fixing Versus Debate. It's not doing Versus Debate. If you want to just write a fanfic then go write a fanfic.

Death Battle is specifically here to quantify who can punch harder. Not for writing a complex and heart pumping tale of mystery, intrigue, and deceit. Every time Light vs Columbo comes up, it quickly stops sounding like Death Battle fight analysis and starts sounding like committee workshopping a crossover comic.

There isn't a way to do this as a matchup that isn't just writing plot. The nature of a cat-and-mouse investigation contest demands that it be beholden to the whims of storycraft moreso than the abilities of the characters, in a way that "Can Goku punch Superman hard enough to make him explode?" does not.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Apr 14th 2024 at 10:31:01 AM

Plus, I think Death Battle/VS debating can also be a way to gauge your interest in certain characters and franchises. Whether it's the power systems, the characters themselves, or the world that's explained. Like, how many people have gotten interested in A Certain Magical Index because of Death Battle, it's kinda like trying out a new game franchise because one of their characters is in Super Smash Bros.

Edited by Witherbrine98 on Apr 14th 2024 at 9:32:18 AM

The thing about versus debates is that it ignores that Writers Have No Sense of Scale but do have Rule of Cool and Rule of Funny.

A lot of the cool moves that fictional characters do would have horrific side effects if properly analyzed. But nobody thinks fiction would benefit from including a serious analysis of how the Gohan-Cell beam-of-war killed off an entire country as a side effect, or how the Flash routinely damages entire cities by the sonic booms caused by running at relativistic speeds, at least not if they want to keep treating Gohan and Flash as heroes.

(I think there's probably room for a channel that analyzes the implied collateral damage by famous fictional scenes, but that would be its own side thing.)

Also death battle need to take everything seriously which make thing silly because they know when series are exagerating for rule of cools.

x4 "But not doing all of that stuff isn't, like, fixing Versus Debate. It's not doing Versus Debate. If you want to just write a fanfic then go write a fanfic. Death Battle is specifically here to quantify who can punch harder."

I very strongly disagree with the logic of "It all comes down to who can punch harder and if you can't figure that out then it's officially not a VS Debate." There have been dozens of episodes where both combatants were either dead even in strength, or close enough for it not to matter, where the deciding factor came from looking at who held the most material advantages, whose hax would be more effective, how their abilities would interact with each other, etc. It's broad strokes, obviously, but there's not a huge fundamental difference between a question like "Could Light Yagami write Columbo's name in the Death Note before Columbo can prove that Light is Kira?" and "Is the Ultron AI advanced enough to be able to assimilate Sigma?" Measurements of speed and TNT don't come into the equation at all. Hell, a key facet of Bill Cipher VS Discord was simply that one character's personality was more attuned to going straight for the kill.

Matches like Light VS Columbo are perfectly fine as a VS Debate, it's just a debate where both characters are standards humans with equalized stats and therefore it comes down entirely to their skills and abilities.

I think we can use the analysis to determine who wins as per normal. It’s the animation that’s gonna be the tough part. Like what do they do majority of the animation? Just running around? We all know how the movie slasher vs movie slasher went and it was somewhat dull.