The General US Politics Thread

I mean, you joke, but it's A: A distinct possibility and B: Not necessarily a bad idea and C: Basically what we've been doing for decades.

Honestly, it's garbage no-win situation. That said, there's a definite way to lose and that's fucking antagonizing them on Twitter.

edited 25th Sep '17 11:18:20 AM by Larkmarn

Let's be realistic here. The chance of the U.S. suffering any significant territorial or structural loss from a war with North Korea is minimal, almost laughable. That fact may make blustering at them seem politically attractive, because it'll get Trump's base, which is composed largely of Call of Duty addicts and gun fetishists, all hot and horny, flush with the hormonal surge of American Power^TM, ready to spew their American Power^TM all over the faces of the world's... I lost my train of though there, didn't I?

No, the real problem is that we'd be playing dice with the lives of tens of millions of people in other nations, like China, South Korea, and Japan — never mind millions of North Korean citizens who have no interest in being bombed to death. We'd also potentially cost ourselves a ton of international credibility and/or economic clout, but that's almost ancillary to the potential for genocide.

Consider that Japan is one of our most vital economic trading partners, and consider that North Korea has the hypothetical power to strike that nation with nuclear weaponry. Full disclosure: I have self-interest in Japan staying intact, because I work for a company that's owned by a Japanese corporation. But that kind of scenario applies to many, many other U.S. workers. How many of the products we consume are manufactured in nations that are in range of North Korea's weaponry?

edited 25th Sep '17 11:41:39 AM by Fighteer

@sgamer: Well that likely is what is going to happen assuming the Democrats get control of government. In the mean time you are still going to see people push for as much Single-Payer as they possibly can.

Probably the only that would genuinely be too radical for even Bernie to propose would be an American NHS.

Trump appeals to the It's All About Me crowd, so that's to be expected.

Trump and Kim are both emotionally satisfying to a specific portion of their constituency when they do things like this. Specifically, the kind that enjoys getting drunk on machismo. "Yeah, boss! You tell that f*cker what's what! He messes with us, he's gonna get his! WE'RE NUMBER ONE! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!"

These kinds of idiots are exactly what makes diplomacy so f*cking difficult. They're a core aspect of the reason why it took the threat of nuclear armageddon for us to stop declaring war over minor insults.

Steve Bannon, former Trump Aide and head of Breitbart, tried to send spies to Facebook to learn about their hiring practices last year, to see if there was a 'liberal bias' in them. Lord knows what would've happened if Bannon actually got a Spy into Facebook, but fortunately none of his spies got in.

Bannon should get into serious trouble over this, but he probably won't.

So, the reason TOB has supporters is economic dissatisfaction shored up by racism born from propaganda and years of being on top and having equality slowly creep into their lives, creating a slightly less desirable life? Of course, no moderately smart racist would call themselves racist.

But when TOB doesn't condemn actual racists, surely that's the limit of what they can morally support? Surely that's the line in the sand they won't cross if only to save face? And if not, where is the line? Does he literally have to strip naked and throw a thousand babies into a volcano - broadcast live of course?

EDIT: Oh, and don't forget all the hypocrisy of doing stuff he accused Hilary of and his breaking of promises. He is such scum and it just... It just angers me people can look at him and say "I approve of this man".

In order to defeat racism, we need to fix the economy. Take down the elite - Yes, that includes That Orange Bastard - and create a better world. Then we have to try and tackle the attitudes towards race that is so entrenched. It would take generations, however, and I will not see such a day assuming I don't become immortal - And immortality is my goal.

edited 25th Sep '17 12:58:48 PM by PolarPhantom

Did... Did Dale Earnhardt Jr just disagree with NASCAR over their anti-protest stance?

[[https://twitter.com/DaleJr/status/912284220067893248 All Americans R granted rights 2 peaceful protests Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable-JFK]]

edited 25th Sep '17 12:58:25 PM by BearyScary

To be fair, there will always be some hardcore racists (like open white nationalists and KKK members) because ideas like that are like cockroaches: they can't ever be completely stamped out in any society that claims itself to be "free". What makes TOB's presidency so noxious is that he knowingly courts those demographics and empowers their ideology. He says, "It's okay to be racist, because I am racist, and I got elected President!"

It's kind of the Evil Twin of Obama's presidency, which inspired so many people of color to believe that they, too, could participate in our political system and succeed, and we would have had a similarly empowering moment for women had HRC won.

edited 25th Sep '17 1:00:59 PM by Fighteer

Also, things like in-group behaviour don't go away just because someone's economic situation improved. Subconscious racial bias might (seeing as it's heavily grounded in conscious racial stereotypes) but I would not bet on economic policy to fix that particular issue alone.

RE: Bannon Spies - that likely falls under Ain't No Rule.

Also, gotta laugh at Dale Earnhardt Jr., one of the most well-known NASCAR drivers, coming out against the ban on protests - it shows just how stupid trying to ban protests will be in the long-run, as people threatened with having that right taken away will unify against the threat. Most of those in the NFL were, to my knowledge, rolling their eyes at Kaepernick's protests last year - this past weekend, we had one of the team's owners (Ravens, I believe) who'd donated to Trump standing arm-in-arm with his players in a show of solidarity with them.

You know, in a weird way, I kinda get racism. It's hardwired into our evolution: protect from other groups so they won't kill you.

Yet there's so much more than just hate in our genes. And we have the amazing ability to actually rise above our base instincts.

How many TOB (I'm so glad that's catching on) supporters are religious? Like, Christian, specifically? This is probably getting a little off-topic, but it's amazing how many people are so hateful yet claim that Jesus - who is often thought of as one the most tolerant religious figures - is their life.

And yeah, you're right about fixing the economy and racism blocking it. The best bet is just to keep trying until we have enough of a foot in the door to get a good economy and keep it going until racist attitudes waver.

EDIT: Septimus is of course correct. There are other treatments that must be administered, but I also think Fighteer is correct: we must solve the underlying problem first.

That might take centuries.

edited 25th Sep '17 1:10:45 PM by PolarPhantom

Worth noting is that we can't make the attitudes disappear entirely, but we can make them largely irrelevant. People who feel safe and prosperous may still harbor racist thoughts, but they don't spend their spare time thinking of ways to disenfranchise minorities.

Yeah, the best way to get people to stand in solidarity for the right to express themselves is to try to suppress that.

It doesn't have to take centuries, but it is going to take some systemic changes that aren't looking so hot with the U.S.' current political demographics.

That Orange Bastard, or The Orange Bastard. Trump.

edited 25th Sep '17 1:11:18 PM by Fighteer

What does TOB refer to?

The Orange Bigot?

Oh, it's the acronym I made because typing "That Orange Bastard" all the time is tiring.

EDIT: That works too.

True, but I like it because it's a reference to Sin City and the image this conjures in my mind is terrifying and hilarious in how appropriate it is.

Very deliberate.

edited 25th Sep '17 1:23:34 PM by PolarPhantom

I prefer bigot. Nothing inherently wrong with being a bastard.

A deliberate Sin City reference or happy coincidence?

I'm partial to that, too, though more because I first heard it from my favorite Whose Line performer, Colin Mochrie.

edited 25th Sep '17 1:57:54 PM by sgamer82

I'm still partial to "Lord Dampnut", myself, since it makes him sound like the worst Sith Lord ever.

"It's kind of the Evil Twin of Obama's presidency, which inspired so many people of color to believe that they, too, could participate in our political system and succeed, and we would have had a similarly empowering moment for women had HRC won. "

I feel trump pretty much invoked this trope, and he deliberate play himself as reaction to Hilary and by order, Obama, like he try to be is evil copy or is foil....

sometimes I call trump administration cheap obama knockoff.

"Lord Dampnut" is indeed really good. I think I'll pilfer that on occasion, if that's OK.

I just use President Cheeto

It's precisely why I've made a point of using it from time to time.

From Vox Experts on North Korea's latest threats: "This is how war by miscalculation starts"

As the title indicates the point of the article is that Trump and North Korea's rhetoric is dangerous not because either party is likely to intentionally start a war but because it increases the chances that a series of miscalculations could result in a war. I must say, this is quite worrying.

edited 25th Sep '17 2:14:57 PM by Fourthspartan56

I have always used Cheeto Supreme, I can't remember where I got that one from.

The worst part with the whole NK thing, is at this point I am not even sure if a descalation and reconciliation is posible, something IS going to happen with it at some point in the future.

But..... this is exactly not what we need, rash and unplaned. You don't just run up and kick the door down on a hostage negotiation, which is what the situation is basicly the international equivilent of.

edited 25th Sep '17 2:28:31 PM by Imca