The General US Politics Thread

Today in Trump, the man had a bit of a twitter spree where he went on and on about how of course black Americans are going to vote for him because he's going to make the streets safe. He also dispelled a rumor that the Wall was going to be a "virtual wall" that seemed to have come from one of his surrogates trying to spin the lunacy back towards fact, affirms that the wall will be really real, really tall, and really impenetrable.

Wish I could say he was the most racist politician in America right now, but the governor of Maine, amazingly, seems to have him beat.

I'm opposed to that statement (as much as Trump seems to fit the bill), since psychopathy is a particular disorder, and the APA has already said that it doesn't want people diagnosing others' mental health without meeting and interacting with them in person (and this cuts both ways, what with the Clinton health conspiracy). So if actual psychologists shouldn't do it, people who aren't psychologists certainly shouldn't do it.

Especially when just calling him a nutjob works just as well, and doesn't require any professional expertise.

edited 29th Aug '16 12:15:22 PM by Eschaton

I've seen several actual psychiatrist call his behaviour suggestive of a narcissistic personality. Which is a little like saying the Pacific Ocean is rather wet, admittedly.

Seconded. With an option on comorbid borderline personality disorder. Anything else is pure speculation.

But, frankly, those two? Trump is practically a walking demonstration thereof. -_-

But, to put it in perspective... the first ever British Prime Minister? Likely candidate for a better class of borderline, but functional, scoundrel. Way more switched-on, though, our Robert Walpole.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:01:13 PM by Euodiachloris

I know a therapist, and he considered that narcissism was obviously a given. But I brought up the issue of psychopathy, and he was much more hesitant to use that term.

Nonetheless, whether a clinical condition or not, Trump's lack of caring about other people has been on display for a very long time. His favorite Bible verse is "an eye for an eye." That's all I need to know.

For starters, the term is clinically defunct. And, working out your antisocial personality spectrum subgroups takes more than eyeballing. Running isometric assessments is usually required.

If in doubt, stick to a borderline classification before narrowing down type and relative level of dysfunction.

Because, technically, Trump is functional. He's doing quite well, actually. I wish he wasn't getting as enabled as he is to do it, but... he is. -_- But, there you go.

edited 29th Aug '16 12:42:16 PM by Euodiachloris

See, the counterpoint to that is that the rate of actual sex crimes tends to plummet when prostitution is legal. Rhode Island discovered that first-hand.

The reason belligerent, sex-starved assholes tend to be so belligerent is because they're sex-starved. Prostitution gives the, uh, less romantically-savvy an outlet that allows them to avoid becoming repressed, world-hating monsters like Eliot Rodger. I'd rather have Bob the Socially Awkward hiring a hooker twice a month so he can be a well-adjusted individual than have him raping and murdering women because no one will sleep with him and he's mad as hell about it.

I mean, it might be news if you've been living in a cave.

On Mars.

With your hands over your ears.

Semi-relevant: Angry asshole busts a nut, he becomes less of an angry asshole.

Well, it's not as if all US Presidents were the very picture of mental health. LBJ also had a huge ego that masked an underlying insecurity. Nixon was arguably paranoid; he certainly had a persecution complex. Grant was probably bipolar and alcoholic. Andrew Jackson was just plain nuts.

Not that this means I have any sympathy for Trump, nor that I want him anywhere near the Oval Office.

Don't get me started on Kennedy...

Well unlike Trump, aside from Jackson I think, those didn't play their lack of mental health as being something positive or made it evident before running for office.

"Insert Bush is a simpleton comment here"

The ex president one.^note  the War on Terror one.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:09:03 PM by AngelusNox

Which Bush^note  Incidentally, haven't the Republicans been airbrushing not just George W Bush but George HW Bush from History?

Is there any truth to the assertion that Reagan might have been suffering from the early stages of Alzheimer's when he was in office?

edited 29th Aug '16 1:09:43 PM by Rationalinsanity

Yup.

Thing is, a lot of people walking about have some set of mental quirks you can easily put in some spectrum or set of disorders, conditions or syndromes... psychiatric or otherwise. And, politicians are people. As are financiers and what have you.

It's normal to not be totally average on every graph. And, to change over time. Yet, people are soooooooo scared of the totally normal, that it gets to be tragically sad. -_-

The thing is, even if you have got a major dysfunction going on, even a personality-based one, you can still function more than adequately within society. As long as you are allowed to, with plenty of support and help to do so. Trump can hire a lot of support to paper over cracks, where others cannot (or will not) do so. But, I wouldn't recommend the treatment plan he's on... It's not cost-effective.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:21:16 PM by Euodiachloris

Regan died in 2004. My experience of people with Alzheimer's is that it's at most five years between diagnosis and death, though my sample size is very small. There are also different levels of ability to function with the disease, some are more functional for longer than others.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:28:21 PM by Elle

Speaking of which I am seeing a lot of chain pictures claiming that Hillary is mentally and physically unhealthy to be the Pot US, including something related to her having a stroke mid speech, having Parkinson's and even a form o dementia.

Surely those began arriving when Trump forged his "all results are positive" health test. Which opens a lot of room to make HIV+ jokes at the expense of that choice of words.

Yeah... There's also the issue of getting bad enough for people to start asking questions...

There's a fair amount of evidence that people with "early stage" dementia would be better classed as "mid-stage". The biology suggests the build-up takes longer than was thought. The longest stage may well be the hardest to spot unless you're really looking (because you know it's in the family).

Not worried about Hillary. Unlike Trump, her entourage isn't there simply to boost her ego. Non-issue. And, if she does have Parkinson's, so bleeding what? Her executive function should work, even if walking straight lines becomes an issue. So not an issue.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:33:19 PM by Euodiachloris

I had edited this into my post but struck.

Wikipedia says Regean was officially diagnosed in '94 so my guess is off. Also, there were suspicious after the announcement but no confirmations. If it was a factor during his term, it was probably early enough to not affect him all *that* seriously. (Terry Pratchett got several more books out before it claimed him.)

Also, Alzheimer's is IMO one of the scariest diseases out there and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, least anything of the sort was crossing anyone's mind.

"Forged" is a strong word here. Supposedly it was true (if badly communicated) based on the doctor's knowledge of him (he's apparently been Trump's doctor for many years.

Not to mention FDR governed through one of the hardest periods in history from a goddamned wheelchair (though he took pains to hide it). And Michael J Fox is still active in the advocacy circles.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:35:25 PM by Elle

No problem there, it is just another disinfo by Trump supporters to disqualify Hillary, they are basically grasping straws at this moment, all their cues stem from Hillary's faces and movements during her speech.

Also another disinfo from Trump supporters is claiming that she is racist on the basis that she expressed admiration towards a first wave feminist that had racist views at the time.

I guess that makes Trump's proctologist more than qualified for that.

edited 29th Aug '16 1:39:22 PM by AngelusNox

The letter is still bullshit, even if it was written by Trump's gastroenterologist. A proctologist isn't qualified to diagnose a brain tumor — unless the patient literally has his head up his ass.

If the morality of prostitution and its legality is going to come up on every page it should be moved to its own thread as it's reaaally off-topic at this point.

And we should rename this to the generation kill thread as it would honestly be more constructive then this election cycle.

Wasn't it gastrointestinology and internal medicine? Internal medicine seems to be the new term these days for general practitioner.

I mean, yeah, the letter still reeks of BS but not the sort people are saying.

I agree that to call the letter a "forgery" would be technically incorrect. But, to quote Penn and Teller (or Penn, anyway...)

So no, I'm not calling Trump's doctor a lying quack or a phony charlatan, I'm just saying he's a bullshitting, motherfucking asshole.

Funny, that, I was tempted to drag out the Bullshit! clip of them having actual Mexicans build a simulated section of wall...and then proceed to demonstrate how easy it would be to circumvent. But the only one I could find quickly would have required hunting through the whole episode and didn't feel like it.

Penn and Teller, BTW, are a big reason I don't dismiss Libertarians out of hand. There were a few episodes of Bullshit that were egregiously bad but much of it was exposing genuine quackery and lampooning moral crusaders.