Minimum wage and the value of labor

@Tomu: It ranges between &75-100/week for us, and we've done a good job getting it down that far by using coupons, following sales, and skipping meals *

. We have a friend who has a husband and a kid, shops at Costco (equivalent of Sam's Club up here) and spends about $200/week on food.

If we switched to processed food, I could probably cut our food bill in half, since frozen dinners regularly go on sale for $1, and ramen packs usually go on sale for 4/$1.

edited 6th Jul '11 12:06:57 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

I can't imagine why you guys are having to spend so much. I mean, when I go into overdrive mode, I still only spend about 70 bucks per week.

Here's a tip: milk has gotten to the point where it can actually be more expensive than buying powdered milk. Though, check your local grocery for specific prices.

I've personally found that Turkey is like, half as expensive as beef and way healthier. It's always good to find cheap, healthier substitutes.

edited 6th Jul '11 12:37:43 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

I like eating whole countries as well too!

In any case, if you employ people in your economy at substandard wages it defeats the entire point of employment. The state needs to consider the reason why it wants people employed; so that they can provide for themselves and pay taxes. If jobs aren't doing that, they are completely useless both to society and the person working it.

Er, having people employed is also useful for things like keeping the streets clean, stocking the store shelves, manufacturing gizmos, etc. If someone is being paid, chances are he's doing something useful.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

^

Except..if the money he makes at that isnt enough to even keep a roof over his head, then you've kept the streets clean so that the street cleaner can go live in a box in an alley at night. Good job?

No, people are employed because shit needs doing. If a person isn't doing something useful, that person is a waste of meat.

Fight smart, not fair.

That's stupid and misleading. Value has to be measured from some kind of standpoint, and if you're going to do the "Oh they aren't doing anything they're a waste of meat" you're hiding where the value comes from. They're living their lives.

Is it true that they're not fulfilling their full potential? Probably. But that's A.) true of basically everyone and B.) almost certainly irrelevant except in terms of trying to mobilize more of said potential in order to get closer to reaching that value thing we were talking about.

In short: Overly cynical way of putting it undercuts the basic idea you're getting at.

@Tomu, post 52: Over here, chicken is nearly $4/lb non-sale. That's why we spend so much.

edited 6th Jul '11 3:17:24 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Yeah, if you just go to a Grocery, it's that much here too. But at Sams, they have these 10 lb bags that are only 2 dollars per pound. Now, this isn't only the best part of the chicken or anything, but still-it's chicken breasts for 2 dollars per pound. It's like "Chicken breast with rib meat" or something, I don't know. Anyway, there's usually a way to buy chicken for cheaper at warehouses like Sams or Costco.

Costco isn't much cheaper, actually. We tried it a couple of times, and never saved enough to justify the extra gas to get there.

Right now we're just hoping that I can get a non-minimum wage job.

edited 6th Jul '11 3:33:24 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Seriously? Jeeze. I mean, there's got to be a Sams or a B Js or something nearby. I mean, Walmart is everywhere, and they're quite often Sams Adjacent.

Hey, good luck. I personally haven't been able to get anything, so I don't know what to tell ya.

edited 6th Jul '11 3:35:30 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

As far as I can tell, Sam's is mostly a Midwest/Southwest thing. I've not seen any on the West Coast.

Heck, even if I could get a minimum wage job that was full-time, we'd be doing better than we are now. Right now, because of company policy, I'm lucky if I get ten hours a week.

EDIT: Looks like there's one in Seattle, but that's almost two hours away.

edited 6th Jul '11 3:41:07 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

If you aren't saving money at Cost Co, I doubt Sam's would be any better. The volume required for savings often requires a family for it to work. A LARGE family.

All I know is that when I go to Sams, I buy chicken and it costs 2 dollar per pound. I also know that there were at least some Groceries even around Detroit where you could get "Chicken breast with rib meat" for around the same price.

Instead of actually looking at their meats department, check out the freezer section. They may have 10 lb bags of chicken breasts for 20 dollars.

And their lives are only valuable to themselves. A tool has no value if you can't put it to use beyond it's component parts. If there's no use for the tool, it's a useless tool, and a waste of space and maintenance*

.

I can honestly say I'm surprised people pay more than a dollar per pound for chicken.

edited 6th Jul '11 4:44:02 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.

^ The Left Coast does that. Food's ludicrously cheap in the breadbasket states but heinously expensive by comparison on the liberal coasts.

I know government regulation is part of the reason why. (You can't bring in food of any kind across the California state line legally without an expensive ass permit.)

Yes Tom, everything even remotely problematic with the world is because of nasty regulations. Wooooo OOOOO Ooooo~

Again, as I noted before, in both Florida and Georgia, chicken can easily be found at those nasty 4 dollars per pound prices-it's just that savvy shoppers can usually buy in bulk if they know where to go. Freeze your meat and you're safe.

edited 6th Jul '11 5:02:50 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

@Tom: Not really. Most of Washington's food comes from the Skagit Valley, which is quite fertile. I personally blame capitalism for gouging the market. They figured out that if you raise prices on food, we'll pay it because we still have to eat somehow.

edited 6th Jul '11 5:12:27 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Quick, somebody genetically engineer algae to work inside human bodies! That'll larn em!

But um, I wonder if Tom knows that California is a net food exporter, the largest single state for it in the country.

That kind of makes import fees a bit hard to explain as the cause of a price differential.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Quite literally!

Okay, the real crux of my opinion is quite simply that if the pay is so little that one relies on sources outside their paycheck for sustenance (I.E.: massive debt, government subsidies, unsustainable levels of austerity,) then the employer is essentially a parasite, and the job is literally worthless to the economy.

Blueharp's probably thinking of this chart. Given that fact, America The Country being filthy rich from its hard work while America The People are seriously contemplating a 3rd world lifestyle as some kind of necessity (heck, not just us, I see the same thing in Europe, complaining about the “lazy, spoiled lifestyle” of the French) is absolutely insane. Anyone in authority suggesting this is either a criminal or a retard.

I'd also include a lack of consumer activism in that equation, since force at both ends of the cycle better squeezes the corporations.

Yup, if those controlling the means of production don't share the fruits of it, they're basically just running in place from the worker's perspective.

That WOULD be the case if not for our open policies on migration, offshoring, and trade, which allows the third world (where population growth is still high and accelerating) to act as a safety valve on the upityness of first world labor.

Lemme rephrase it, then: How much is an hour of life worth to you? Do you think it's dangerous for some people to put a far lower value on it than you do?

I wouldn't say “never,” since many union-negotiated contracts have used exactly that as a basis for demanding increased pay, often linked to it directly.

Whether there's 100 people or 100 million people, if 1% of them are hoarding the fruits of everybody's labor, life will always suck.

Because jobs need doing, and if those jobs pay more, more people will be paid more. The economy can't be shut down just because some people are indignant at the prospect of paying a living wage.

Midget's right, if somebody does a job that has to be done, but earns so little they become a net liability on the economy regardless, that means they literally aren't being paid enough to do their job (think abusing expensive machines as “disposable” instead of properly maintaining just one.)

I grew up in Monterey, central California, and always got local food. Whenever I'm anywhere else, I see an awful lot of the exact same California food I got in Monterey, and a disturbingly large amount FROM Monterey. I'll bet Colorado probably gets all its fruit and vegetables from my hometown.

Eric,

edited 6th Jul '11 8:29:59 PM by EricDVH

Well, there's regulations and then there's California Regulations.

Fight smart, not fair.

Citations really are needed, as we've demonstrated probable cause that import laws and regulations are not responsible for making food more expensive.

That was more of a Take That! than any legitimate discussion.

Fight smart, not fair.

Then keep it out of OTC!