If I can't beat corrupt rich people, should I join them?

When I look at the world's current economic state, it seems like greedy rich people really do control everything. They control the world's power (governments) and information (mass media). I'm disillusioned with my own nation (USA), while knowing that there is a plethora of nations with much worse circumstances. The fact that rich people control everything is Older Than Feudalism, and while there have been advancements with things like democracy and civil rights, events like the 2008 economic crash and its global aftermath make it clear to me that rich people really do have the world in the palm of their hands. Even revolutions against hegemony eventually become hegemonic themselves; it's The Virus. Corruption is the status quo, with some nations having better standards of living by cannibalizing smaller nations.

I'm going to a prestigious college in a couple of months. It's on the top ten of this list, so I don't think I'm having delusions of grandeur. I'll have the opportunity to major in economics and make connections with the Ivy League cartel of power. I could literally dine with the very people who screw over the entire world on a daily basis if I play my cards right.

I don't think that I'll do it, but I can't completely expel the idea from my mind. Should I do it? Should I make friends with Objectivist bank CEO's? It would be difficult for my conscience, but nothing is impossible. Am I having a twisted delusion of imminent fortune, as obviously not every student of these kinds of schools becomes rich and evil? What would you do in my situation?

edited 30th Jun '11 11:36:46 AM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

Reform them from within. Become the next Warren Buffett or Bill Gates. Get rich then support politicians who will do right by the world.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

Ask yourself - why would you WANT to beat the corrupt?

That's the reason why you shouldn't join them.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

Why not kill someone because they are standing in the way of your goals if you are positive no-one will find out?

I don't have this much optimism. Like I said, corruption is Older Than Feudalism, and I'm not the messiah. The entire government is drowning in corrupt money. Either I would be blacklisted, or I'd become too drunk with power.

edited 30th Jun '11 11:53:00 AM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

If I ever get the resources, I'm going to make a run at beating them, to be honest. Maybe. Possibly. How? By getting an Economics Ph D and developing an alternate economics model.

Democracy is the process in which we determine the government that we deserve

Don a plate of sour armour. If my Polish grandfather can arrive on the shores of Scotland after marching from Siberia to Kazakhstan, with barely a grasp of the language, and end up a millionaire, and still remain a thoroughly honourable man, priveliged modern westerners have no excuse for pushing people down on their way up.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

ahahahaha

Yes, join us them. Unless you get your money by stealing instead of just screwing others over by being too successful.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.

Of course I want to beat the corrupt, but I think that it's impossible. Corruption is a fact of life, like natural disasters or diseases. I could spent my life fighting "the man" in vain, or I could be "the man" and control half of the nation's wealth!

edited 30th Jun '11 12:01:21 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

Or you could fight and be the man by trying to introduce legislation which tightens control on corruption. I grant you, it wouldn't work forever, but it would work well enough for a long period of time.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

I am currently a Knight in Sour Armor. But, I already consider myself complicit in the corruption by using items that are made in sweatshops. I know that the USA does tons and tons of evil things, but I enjoy the standard of living that I have here. Why not go all the way?

edited 30th Jun '11 12:03:41 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

Not wanting to make things worse? Whole point in being a Knight in Sour Armour is that even if the world is a Crapsack one, it doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to make it worse. Its one thing to drain things passively, its another to actively go out of your way to drag people down.

Also, money is power. Funnily enough, power can also be used to do good things as well as bad.

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

I think that I could do this. Though, it's rather bittersweet. I guess the world doesn't get any better than bittersweet.

My moral compass shows no difference between doing evil and passively benefiting from evil.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:11:47 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

Join them and then invest wisely.

By wisely, I mean with long-term enlightened self-interest. Invest in credit unions, low-interest loans to worker's co-operatives, green energy, that sorta thing. Make it profitable for the little guy to support a more equitable society. Then, fifty years down the line, when the populist revolution has succeeded, everyone remembers you as the guy who made it happen.

The first rich bastard to sell out his fellow rich bastards in favour of populist movements is gonna be set for life. Him and his kids too.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

I've been complicit in evil my entire life, so, I could probably live relatively happily with this hypocrisy. I think this is what I'll most likely do.

I should take example after Joseph Pulitzer? I think that's a good idea.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:18:21 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!

(sigh)

Look, the general message here is; it is actually possible to succeed without screwing everyone over. People mentioned Bill Gates.

Also, having money does not, inherently, make someone evil. Your latest comment implied that it did. If you have a problem with the effect the stuff you buy and use has on the world around, plan out a way to minimise it, and campaign for alternatives for stuff you can't avoid.

The argument "the world sucks, evil is all around, you can't avoid doing evil, so lets all be evil" doesn't fly with me. Especially replacing the end of that sentence with "so lets fuck it and be more evil."

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

How much weight have you given to the hypothesis that maybe your dislike for the "corruption" of the wealthy comes from a biased and caricatural image?

We modern westerners live in a time of huge comfort and leisure compared to the majority of mankind in past centuries; and a lot of that comfort wouldn't exist without entrepreneurs and the people who finance them.

The "us-vs-them" mentality of looking down on the successful seems to mostly come from people who think that *they* should be at the top of the pyramid, or that failing that, nobody should. I'd rather have an unequal society with modern comfort than a short, nasty and brutish life where we are all equal.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

Interesting point that I've seen elsewhere: After WW 2, the data that was collected by Mengele was taken to Jewish religious leaders, and it was asked of them if the data should be destroyed, because it was made with the suffering of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of jews. The leaders said that if the data saves lives, then it should not be destroyed.

Seems applicable.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

Bill Gates succeeded through screwing people over.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:17:27 PM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

He did?

The term "Great Man" is disturbingly interchangeable with "mass murderer" in history books.

@SH: How?

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

Note also that if you start out thinking rich and successful people are evil, you're more likely to be evil if you get rich than if you start out thinking success comes from virtue, and that with social status comes more responsibility and Nobless Oblige.

Point that somewhere else, or I'll reengage the harmonic tachyon modulator.

I would, if the goals were important enough to me.

Anyway Grain, what someone else said.. Associate with them, be successful, become rich and/or influential, and then influence the right people who you think will do right by the nation. That isn't corrupt, it's a cunning service to the world you would be doing.

@Everyone: Generally monopolistic, anti-competitive practices. Microsoft is sort of less evil now, but it was very evil in the Nineties.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:19:14 PM by SavageHeathen

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

Idealistically, I think that shared suffering is better than inequality. But, my actions are hypocritical.

I'm iffy about this, but I think that this is my best option. I think I've got it settled now. This is what I'll try to do. Thank you, dear Tropers.

edited 30th Jun '11 12:29:10 PM by Grain

Anime geemu wo shinasai!