Pony Fanfiction Thread

Okay, guys, story idea. Big time.

After the founding of Equestria (as recounted in the Hearth's Warming Eve plays), the harmonious co-operation between the races quickly becomes strained. When Discord arrives on the scene to wreak havoc, things rapidly go from bad to worse, and soon "Equestria" is no more than an umbrella term for several dozen earthpony, unicorn and pegasus tribes, most of whom aren't exactly on good terms with each other.

When a female alicorn, Faust, is born into a family of unicorn nobles, it raises questions about her real parentage, as well as panicked rumours of demonic possession. However, once she actually takes the reins, her skilled leadership of her tribal duchy quickly silences all complaints.

Faust's ambitions are greater than merely being a good Duchess, however. She goes looking for the legendary artifacts, the Elements of Harmony, to defeat Discord. She finds them, and starts touring around Equestria, trying to rally a great army behind her banner to take the monster on. By methods ranging from gentle persuasion to brute force, she eventually succeeds, defeating Discord and unifying Equestria. She is crowned the Empress of the land, and builds her capital on the slopes of the mighty Canterhorn.

— This is where the story starts —

After a few decades of ruling Equestria, Empress Faust dies. Her inheritance is divided among her three children: Luna, Celestia, and Sombra. (Her husband died many years before her). Luna gets the west, Celestia the east, and Sombra the north (including the Crystal Empire), with Canterlot as a free city not answering to any of them. They would prefer to divide the Elements of Harmony similarly - two for each sibling - but their mother, knowing that the Elements only work when they're all used together and not entirely trusting any of her children with the Elements' power, has hidden them away long ago.

There are great tensions, and occasionally clashes, between the three siblings. Sombra turns out to be a terrible ruler. What's more, he soon becomes downright evil and uses dark magic to enslave the Crystal Ponies. He also starts picking fights with both of his sisters at the same time. Eventually they get fed up with him and decide to work together to get rid of him.

After a long and grueling struggle, Luna and Celestia succeed. Satisfied with their teamwork, they soon decide to fuse their territories and rule Equestria together, once again making Canterlot their capital.

Meanwhile, each of the three children has been searching for their mother's hidden Elements on their own. Celestia has found them sometime before the war against Sombra, but hasn't revealed this to her siblings. Well, it's not like she'll ever need to use them, right? Right?

—

In case you couldn't tell, this is heavily inspired by the Real Life history of the Frankish empire, particularly the Treaty of Verdun and the Oaths of Strasbourg. (Those actually versed in that history will notice that I skipped a generation, making the feuding siblings the children rather than the grandchildren of the great emperor/empress). In fact, this whole idea started with the 'Sombra is Lothar, and Luna and Celestia swear the Oaths of Strasbourg' plot bunny. I'd also want it to have the setting or "feel" of that time period.

It would be a long story, about 100-150k words or more, involving several major and minor nobles - and of course Celestia, Luna and Sombra themselves - as characters. It would have court intrigue, battles, ceremonies, speeches, pledges of allegiance, the works.

Sound good?

edited 27th Apr '13 1:55:52 PM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

I can vouch for that on Seth, I sent news in once and he said "added to the que" but never posted it.

I think the main issues with EQD's fanfic thing are:

1. They often mistake personal preference with objective quality, and treat deliberate stylistic decisions as errors.

2. The various prereaders all have different standards, so whether a fic gets approved or not depends heavily on who reads it.

I don't think they're as horrible as a lot of people make them out to be, though; pretty much any site with quality control of any kind is going to have these sorts of issues. It's just most noticeable here because they're the most popular pony site.

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I need input on this so far, it's dialog heavy so I need to know if it's flowing well:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1egtHFk4yfhGzmof55gomxVyfbn9pCqpSqd-PgypxgfY/edit

Updated chapter 18. Just noting, I added an additional scene with Applejack before the Fluttershy/Pinkie conversation, so if you're leaving feedback, make sure you hit that one too.

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This isn't much pony related but it is an interesting analysis on the creative thought process, particularly where it comes to fanfiction, so I'm going to drop and article I read earlier today. IT's interesting stuff.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

@Midnight; not my cuppa tea, but it sounds like an interesting idea.

@kegi; I disagree with the article. Partly because Adventure Time tries to work on too many levels and they all disrupt each other, not enhance each other. Partly because creativity can't be "masturbatory"—this may be*

the teacher in me talking, but whenever you are being creative you are practicing skills and fulfilling psychological needs.

To call any creative endeavor self-indulgent is inaccurate and insulting; Scott McCloud himself defined "art" as something which has nothing to do with biological needs. Art helps you improve skills (and not simply those related to that field) and it is calming and therapeutic.

A preschooler making a watercolor painting is no different than an adult writing fanfiction; the process is far more important than the product. The former is recognized as important, why isn't the latter?

"The only way to truly waste an idea is to shove it where it doesn't belong."

I haven't watched Adventure Time, but I do agree with the article on that point. Creativity can be "masturbatory" when the author's purpose for creating is wholly self-serving. In our own fandom, we have the various (bad) human in Equestria fics where the human in question is a self-insert who meets the mane six and overcomes their insecurities and finds out how awesome they are and yadda yadda yadda.

It's just that most creative efforts that are "masturbatory" are simply bad, so we don't read them. That doesn't mean that they're not there.

I think perhaps the assertion is that the 'masterbatory art' is done for the sake of the end product, with not thought given to the process. I write because I enjoy writing, certainly, but who's to say that some weird fangirl writing a comfort fic isn't doing it simply to have this universe where she, or a standin for herself, is allowed to be with whichever character? Or someone writes a torture fic solely for catharsis from a hated character? I thik what the article is getting at is that these creations are dangerous because they strip away the actual creation, leaving only the end result, oftentimes twisted for lack of context - sex can be about closeness and intimacy as much as getting off, but masturbation is really only about getting off.

Of course, that's the thing I like most about that site: You don't necessarily have to agree with the assertion of the article so long as you consider it and its alternatives. Heck, there can even be different interpretations about the assertions made.

I myself agree with it to a degree - I know that the times I've been least satisfied with my art have been the times I've tried to regulate it very strictly, whereas when I let it flow I tend to have more fun, but I think that's not necessarily to do with his assertion - after all, even at my most controlling I'd never consider my work masturbatory - so much as a matter of process.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

I'd agree that creation of works certainly can be masturbatory, but I don't think it's at all limited to fanfic. Pretty much any work containing any degree of author appeal is self-gratifying to some degree. I think the main issue is that the various purposes for writing aren't at all mutually exclusive. I mean, I certainly tend to write the kinds of stories that I enjoy, but I also do it because I enjoy the process, and when I write I almost always take the potential audience into consideration.

Honestly, trying to identify a work as such is nearly impossible because we have no idea what's going on in the writer's head. We have no idea whether they're writing for catharsis, or because they just enjoy writing, or because they want to tell a story, or what.

@Clever: I agree with you for the most part, but I definitely think that some works can be masturbatory. I direct to the gazillion shipfics that exist solely because the author really likes the couple rather than for any valid characterization reasons, as well as a lot of the stuff on the Author Appeal page. Yes, calling all creative work masturbatory is horribly overstating it, but it definitely can be used that way.

Of course all this depends on exactly how we're defining "Masturbatory" anyway; in this sort of context it seems to generally mean "an author writing solely for his own gratification without regard for the quality of the process or the end product". Basically somebody aiming solely for catharsis with no intention to tell the story with any particular degree of skill.

---

In other news, my latest chapter has triggered a lot of comments about the nature of Twilight and Applejack's relationship which are quite interesting. There are even a few people arguing about whether or not Twilight should know better at this point or whether this situation is unique to her experience. It's quite interesting seeing interpretations of it from a purely outside perspective.

edited 24th Apr '13 9:45:41 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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You know that moment when after the computer implodes leaving you with hours of restoring the system, and then you start restoring all backups you had... All? No! One small village of indomitable fic docs and research notes still holds out against the invaders refuses to appear!

Right.

Not that I had a lot done, mostly loose scenes, but this left me in the mood of some serious and indiscriminating murder.

Re the article: I don't know what to think about that, but I believe I agree with JT. I don't think that being "masturbatory" (or not) is any important on itself. Besides, everyone needs to develop some auto-criticism and recognize what are they doing wrong, but when someone draws a picture or write a story he is nonetheless doing what it's most natural and likable to them, and you cannot expect to reach to all the world with your work.

There is an interview to Alex de la Iglesia, saying "I don't believe in style, I believe in the disease. I have diseases. And obsessions. And neurasthenias. There is a given moment when I need to do that [hang characters from heights]. I admit that is a disease. Other people mask that disease as style. I think it's like tuberculosis. I need to do it, and I do it constantly. I like it." It's something "masturbatory", because it's his "disease" that moves him to do something that others probably won't like, as well as being "exaggerated, histrionic, overreacted, pedantic and arrogant". But he recognizes that and tries (I supposse) to use it in a good way.

Huh, disease. It sure sounds much better than masturbatory.

edited 24th Apr '13 10:11:06 PM by Connelly

Forgive me for not being clear. My point is that I agree with McCloud; all art is inherently self-indulgent in some way because it doesn't fulfill any strict biological needs.

To say, as the article does, that self-indulgent art is pointless or even dangerous is untrue. Not because of the nature of any individual creative endeavor, but because of the nature of art itself.

After all, let us not forget the Fiction Identity Postulate.

If someone doesn't learn from their mistakes or is immune to all criticism then that is a separate issue from the function of art in society, more related to the importance of introspection and personal growth.

edited 25th Apr '13 1:56:44 AM by CleverPun

"The only way to truly waste an idea is to shove it where it doesn't belong."

@Midnight: Sounds workable to me. Divulges from canon a bit, but in an aceptable way.

Ponyville has been estimated at 5000 ponies IIRC, which makes sense for a villiage. Canterlot is a city and so two size categories larger. But is not a conurbation, so almost definately less than a million. Honestly it doesn't seem very big for a city at all. But Isuppose it depends on how big you think Canterlot is relative to Ponyville. 50 000? 100 000? I do't know. I suck at estimations. Then again, Canterlot is based on Minas Tirith, which also had no official population size, but apparently the army which attacked it was 200 000 in the movies. You need a large army to attack a fortified city with medievil tech, but that's considered rather large. 50 000 seems like decent estimate.

5000 is a bit large for a village, if you ask me. Sounds more of a medium-sized town. Try a population of about 500-1000 and then it seems more reasonable.

In my headcanon (as used for Arsenal of Harmony), Equestria is a nation on the scale of Real Life France or Britain, with a population of around 50 million ponies, but spread out over a much larger area. Its largest cities, like Canterlot and Manehattan, have populations of one or two million each.

edited 25th Apr '13 8:05:09 AM by MidnightRambler

Mache dich, mein Herze, rein...

Found the analysis.

It was actually between 3100 and 4291.

However, a comment points out that the size of the maternity ward indicates a population closer to 20 000 (but this likely includes surrounding areas). Even still, that large number is partially explained by this: 2. Young couples flock to Ponyville, creating a local "baby boom" and a disproportionate work load at the maternity ward.

I believe that explanation makes sense as Ponyville's popularity has soared in recent times due to it being the home of the Bearers of Harmony.

EDIT: The largest village in the USA has a population of 32 000.

EDIT: Whoops. My mistake. It's actually 75 101.

edited 25th Apr '13 6:20:29 AM by Sereg

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1glBLPVumzYbi5IZ5_bxQ09zEfQmdbOc1nY3CKu_4JHI/edit?usp=sharing

It's available for commentating! (It's the same piece I shared with you guys a few pages back.)

That might be true in a technical classification, but on a cultural level most people would stop considering a town to be a "village" once it gets above a few thousand.

Personally, I've always guessed that Ponyville would be in the 3000-5000 range, while Canterlot has maybe 100K. Larger cities like Manehattan or Fillydelphia might have closer to a million, if not more.

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So, a similar conclusion to that study.

Makes sense to me.

Though I must admit, that wikipedia article confuse me. Since hen are populations that size measured precisely enough to get down to "and one"? W Hat if the dude died this morning or something?

Margin of error, I guess?

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Well, ah. That's my point. They aren't giving any margin of error there, which is ridiculuos.

Well, censuses are supposed to be pretty accurate, aren't they? Like, that's the point of them, so I would figure so. I imagine they just update it yearly.

Also, given Rarity's reaction to the mere notion of Canterlot in the first episode, I find it KIND of hard to believe it's not one of the largest, if not THE largest city in Equestria. I realize the capital of a place doesn't have to be the biggest(The largest city in Canada is, I believe, Toronto while our capital is Ottawa. Unless you ask some from Toronto, in which case the capital is 'you mean there are places that aren't Toronto?"), but for Canterlot to be regarded as apparantly one of the most glamorous or otherwise cosmopolitan cities I'd have to imagine there's be a lot going on there. Enough so ponies would want to go there, at least. I imagine it as a new york or Vancouver-esque place(In fact, when writing it I almost always base it's landscapes off of places I've seen in Vancouver. Likewise I tend to base Manehattan off of Montreal). Manehatten, for some reason, I tend to imagine as being a more industrial city - or at least starting that way. IF it's got any draw I imagine it being industry rather than culture. Though again, since I do base it off Montreal, I hardly imagine it bereft of culture.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.

I dunno, the only time we've seen Manehattan so far it was all about the Oranges, who were pretty high class.

Canterlot... I'm really not sure what to make of it. Like you said, the culture implies a larger population, but at the same time it's never portrayed as being all that big. The only time where we're really seen it bustling are the Grand Galloping Gala and the Hearth's Warming Eve play, both of which are major events that would probably draw lots of ponies from other places.

I'd personally guess that rather than size, it's a cultural milestone because of it's location; it's dead center of Equestria. It doesn't have a huge native population, but there are lots of ponies moving through it. I get that it doesn't always work that way in real life, but I think it makes sense for the setting.

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Yeah, it's odd, because it doesn't actually seem that big when we look at it, despite what we're told.

Unless the castle is supposed to be ludicrously big.

The biggest mountain in the US has a prominence of 6138 meters. I ... have no idea what this tells us in terms of Canterlot's maximum size, but it may be useful.

Given that we always seem to see the same shot of it, it's possible that most of the city is on the other face of the mountain.

Birthright: an original web novel about Dragons, the Burdens of Leadership, and Mangoes.