Nationalism and patriotism

Nationalism can be a good bulwark against overreaching "one worldism" (eg Ireland vs the EU), if nothing else.

I consider myself a patriotic person because I love the culture of my country, I am interested in its history etc. I also have a very big sentiment for this place because that's where most of my memories, my whole family and my best friends are. There is nothing wrong with it, loving your fatherland has nothing to do with hating others. Patriotism is not the same as My Country, Right or Wrong, that's a very short-sighted interpretation

As I understood it, patriotism is loving/supporting the country on a cultural level; whilst nationalism is supporting it on an institutional level.

edited 25th Jun '11 5:09:39 AM by MRDA1981

Not necessarily. Nationalism might also be purely genetic (hurr durr pure blood, foreigner GTFO herp derp). But yeah, in times of peace, patriotism is usually cultural

Yeah. That too.

Patriotism is more desirable. To me, patriotism suggests that the individual in question has reached a reasoned conclusion on why they should be proud of their country and why they should work for its benefit. On the other hand, "nationalism" puts me in mind of a set of values expounded by self-proclaimed experts, such as members of a special group or political party, which others should be obliged to follow.

That's just me, though. Other people have different definitions which are probably better. No skin off my nose if they are.

Honestly, I don't understand why would somebody be loyal to a country as a concept. For me, it's not that simple piece of land that matters, but the people living there, regardless of nationality.

Patriotism is when it becomes about improving your country. Nationalism is the urge to see your country rise at the expense of others. Thats how it is in my mind anyway.

I like feeling like I am part of a country with history and culture. I like the continuity and the heritage. I like that it's a part of my identity. Thus, mild pride in being British, and anger when people suggest breaking the country up for reasons that seem petty and selfish. My problem with being a "citizen of the world" or whatever is that it seems bland and generic in comparison.

I don't think the feeling is strong enough to be called "patriotism", and nationalism still seems ugly and short-sighted.

edited 25th Jun '11 4:27:22 PM by pagad

Aristotle's doctrine of the Golden Mean: .. Patriotism is a virtue.

Not enough patriotism is the vice of Treason. Too much patriotism is the vice of Jingoism.

edited 25th Jun '11 4:45:14 PM by Trotzky

^ So in order to be patriotic, all I have to do is refrain from conspiring to kill David Cameron or the Queen?

They should be about love of your own, not about hate of everyone else. Unfortunately, this is a taboo subject nowadays and I have to put up with globalization and other stuff. Whatever, if I told anyone about my beliefs I'd be called an evil Hitler wannabe who eats kittens for lunch even though I'm far from that.

I get a little confused when people talk about "their own" referring to their countrymen. I don't really understand why I'm supposed to feel more kinship with people in London than people in, say, Edinburgh. Or, for that matter, Los Angeles. Or Paris, even, Frenchness notwithstanding.

Well what do I know, most people from the UK I met aren't nationally conscious because they haven't been occcupied by anyone for hundreds of years (they don't even have and Independence Day!). While some like me, from a country like Poland would certainly have some consciousness due to our history consisting of us getting smacked by all sorts of great powers.

That makes a lot of sense, actually. English people wouldn't be too fond of nationalism because they haven't had their national identity threatened.

I think that's also why we have very little respect for our own folk culture compared to, say, Scotland.

Which is a darn shame, really, because Medieval English lute music is a lot better than Celtic folk music.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go turn in my Irish passport, and go buy a monocle and some teabags.

Monocles and tea-bags? That's probably the biggest enemy of English folk culture there is!

Well, second biggest, after the English.

edited 25th Jun '11 5:29:41 PM by BobbyG

" So in order to be patriotic, all I have to do is refrain from conspiring to kill David Cameron or the Queen?"

No. Cameron is evil and it is you patriotic duty to kill him and his minions.

Thanks... as a patriot, I would gladly. But they're my government, and they do something. At least. I am loyal to the great nation, the great supranation, but not the leader.

Why would anybody kill the Queen?

I mean, assasinating a political leader might make sense. But killing a monarch? They put the heir apparent to the throne and get done with it.

Unless there was an active pro-Republic movement pushing very hard on a referendum on the monarchy at the time of the Queen's death... regicide would be utterly pointless.

Unless you're going for offing everyone in the succession line. Said line is like, long. Yeah, I'm sure that after offing everybody in the line of succession you'd get a republic, but that sort of murderfest would be very evil. Many of those could have no intention of getting the Crown on the first place.

edited 25th Jun '11 6:31:36 PM by SavageHeathen

Didn't you hear? The queen ordered off with their heads, then to paint the roses red!

Or was it the other way around?

Yeah... no-one's gonna kill the queen. To do so would upset as many people as nobody.

That would really be pointless, but let's face it, the existence of monarchy in Britain is pointless, too.

No, not pointless. Of debatable usefulness, maybe, but not pointless.

And this is probably where I start to sound semi-patriotic, I suppose. I can respect the principle that having a monarchy gives the nation something stable to rally around.