"Talking Like a Guy"

Hello everyone. I have been having a frequent argument with AHR recently involving some of her writings, and I want to know if my argument has anything to it. (I have her permission to make the thread, by the way.) In a nutshell, in the story she is currently writing, I have commented to her several times that her main character almost seems to come across as... Speaking like a girl. He is a fourteen year-old male, and yet, there are small things in his mannerisms that whenever I read them, strike me as almost "feminine."

AHR has disagreed with me heavily on this, and I want to know if there is anything to what I am saying, or if I am misapplying a label to another issue. See, the problem is that the examples I give are not very... "big." Like, compare the following two excerpts. The former is AHR's original, the latter is what I suggested she change it to:

Compared to:

That may not have been the greatest example, as I just came up with the second excerpt off the top of my head. I'll try to come up with something a bit more solid. The problem is that all of them are little things. Saying "owwie" when he gets hurt, stressing his vowels and elongating words. See, that's partially why I bring it to a new thread entirely. Because I don't KNOW what annoys me about it so much.

Is there a real differentiation between the way men and women speak?

Um, I could definitely see the second one as more masculine and the first one as jarringly feminine for a guy, and I could also definitely see it as that way because you suggested it to me. How about some blind, non-labeled examples to see if there really is a difference?

Sure... Hmm... How about...

A comes off as childish and hyper.

B comes across as teenagerish and mellow.

Nicky seems kind of... not feminine, but cutesy. Like a very childish girl.

I dunno, your version does seem more masculine to me.

Wait no, I got it. Vriska. AHR's Nicky talks kinda like Vriska.

edited 13th Jun '11 2:20:47 PM by BobbyG

^^^ Okay, especially given the gender-neutral name, I envision Nicky as a girl in that post.

With the assertive dialogue, adding long vowel sounds makes me either imagine a girl or a sassy gay guy (don't blame me, blame the media ).

Vriska, huh?

Chubert: Assertive?

edited 13th Jun '11 2:34:00 PM by MrAHR

I think it's not something like feminine versus masculine here, the whole elongating vowels and "owwie" thing are very childish and things that would be tolerated from a girl at older ages due to Double Standard. It looks like the dialogue of a 5 year old boy or a 9 year old girl, perhaps older if she's deliberately trying to be cutesy.

He's calling the system stupid, trying to prove the other guy wrong, etc. etc. Except it's coming across as sassy as opposed to...I don't know, pissed off in a manly way?

Oh. I was going for whiny. Pity.

I agree with Cats. The dialogue isn't coming across as masculine or feminine, but more young or immature.

edited 13th Jun '11 2:39:46 PM by BetsyandtheFiveAvengers

(Note that I'm really good at not getting stuff sometimes.)

To me, Nicky seems ot be an overexcited fifteenish-year old girl.

edited 13th Jun '11 3:13:40 PM by Quoth

Seems more like 5-year-old androgyne to me.

Course, the real question is this, would you, plural, call bull shit on a character who is male, talking like that?

Okay, well, I will clarify that I did cherrypick some of the examples, but the point is taken. My second question: Do you believe that this is something that should generally be avoided, if the character does not specifically call for it?

Nicky seems... hyperactive and very hammy. I can definitely picture some boys I know saying stuff with the inflections written, but left to my own devices I'd probably assume a girl.

I would probably call bullshit on them. I mean, I'm guessing that this guy is some kind of shonen-style protagonist, probably a martial artist or some shit like that. I don't think the kind of teenager/young adult that would be drawn to that kind of lifestyle would sound like a racist Justin Bieber fan with a massive head wound crossed with Dagget from the Angry Beavers.

I dunno about call bullshit, but I'd be a bit "Ooo-kay, then."

That's not how I normally picture guy-whiny, put it that way.

Some small part of every small boy wants to be Batman when they grow up. Look at all those skinheads that fight in MMA: they wanted to be Martial-Artist!Batman. Scientists? They want to be Superscience!Batman. Cops and firefighters? Detective!Batman and Hero!Batman. Every boy. Even fashion designers want to be Fabulous!Batman.

Keep that in mind. An over the top, immature fighter is going to try to act and sound like Batman and fail horribly.

edited 13th Jun '11 3:49:35 PM by MatthewTheRaven

I never wanted to be Batman.

I've never ever seen a boy talk like that at all. I knew girls who had some of these mannerisms.

Pretty sure my bro didn't even like Batman that much.

I have. Most of them have either been wannabe actors or had a slightly camp tinge, though.

edited 13th Jun '11 3:54:49 PM by LoniJay

Mathew, erm, I think you might be misinterpreting Nicky a tad bit. He doesn't want to be Batman. At all. He's immature, and doesn't want to grow up. But... He's not a female. And He isn't supposed to be a "sissy boy," for lack of a better term. They're two different issues.

AHR's two original parts there have an exclamation in virtually all of Nicky's words. It felt like it was screaming in my ears. it sounds overly spastic to me, like a little bitchy kid that you want to smack. Not that I would ever smack a kid mind you, but you get the idea. An annoying person.

I wouldn't say girly, I'd say grating. Too many exclamation marks.