Parenting

Dude, I'd totally mock my kids and say "I told you so."

As long as it's playful teasing and not in the tone of "You should've listen to me your stupid ungrateful brat."

I think you're underestimating the reasoning ability of children. I've seen 5 year olds act with more respect for the importance of democracy then members of parliament. When we had school meetings we sat quietly and listened to others speak before taking our turn, that's a hell of a lot better then most legislators.

But that's never, we don't magically grow a bubble when we turn 18. All our desiccation effect everyone around us, regardless of our age. Plus there are plenty of freedoms you can grant a child before they start to negatively impact the freedom of another. How does your son having a boyfriend rather than a girlfriend brings consequences onto your shoulders?

Plus I'm not saying don't have rules. But bring the kid in on them, don't impose them from on high. If you explain to a kid why steeling is bad then work out with them what an appropriate punishment for steeling is, they won't have a leg to stand on when you punish them for shoplifting. Because they worked with you to make the rule that they don't get to shoplift.

Then you would attend your classes. Kids like to learn, they like to gain knowledge. If you can get them earlier enough before the system makes them hate the classroom then they will be much more likely to turn up. Plus the school being tiny meant that classes maxed out at around 8 people, combine that with everyone in the room wanting to be there and wanting to learn (to such a level that teachers have been bought up (taken to the school meeting) for repeatedly going of on tangents and not focusing on giving the kids what they need to know) and you learn extremely fast. Though I admit it's not for everyone.

Sure, but no getting assay when they say "Daddy don't do that it's silly" and then say "I told you so" when you screw up.

edited 4th Apr '13 11:23:20 AM by Silasw

That sounds awesome Silasw! I kinda wish my elementary had been like that.

How do you encourage a kid to get over their fear? For instance, I always had and always will have a fear of heights, (acrophobia) but I grew to love roller coasters by my own choices. I was lucky I had an interest that required me to get used to it, what about in other cases though?

edited 4th Apr '13 11:44:02 AM by Wildcard

What is the name of this school Silasw, if you don't mind.

Elementary and secondary, it covers roughly from age 5 to age 16. With less then 100 kids it's rather small. Part of that is why the system works, you all live with each other and know each other, hard to hold a grudge when you have to see them the next morning at breakfast (also makes breakups really awkward). That and the fact that on the social front if anything ever went seriously wrong the head can just step in and kick a kid out, as happened with one kid who bullied me.

Also it's a private school, cost around 10K a year, which is cheep for a boarding school (though still rather a lot if you've not getting support from the school's charity). The UK doesn't have any schools with similar systems that get state funding, though Denmark does (I visited such a school as part of the European Democratic Schools Moment, it was fun, especially cus it way all paid for), as I believe do some other countries.

Edit: Summerhill, A S Neil's Summerhill in Suffolk. Bean going over 90 years and is almost in its third generation of leadership (family run). The only similar one in the UK is Sans in Devon. Also, have you got an answer for my "How does your son having a boyfriend rather than a girlfriend brings consequences onto your shoulders?" question yet?

edited 4th Apr '13 11:51:19 AM by Silasw

It all depends on the child how you can handle education and discipline.

Kids have different needs and traits. Kids also have different maturities at different ages. So you can't really say one age is a good standard

Good point.

You miss my edit? Cus I'd really like an answer to "How does your son having a boyfriend rather than a girlfriend brings consequences onto your shoulders?". If you don't have one, I'd like to know that you don't.

edited 4th Apr '13 1:08:05 PM by Silasw

I'll get to it in a moment.

Does it have something to do with leading people away from sin? How it is a duty to try to help people see the error of their ways?

Parents sole duty is to raise their children into successful adults.

Most view imparting a specific religious or cultural ethos as the way to do that.

Gabrael more or less answered the question Silasw. My daughter's relationship with another girl may not impact me directly, but as their parent, I have a duty to keep them from engaging in anything I know/believe to be wrong before they can truly grasp the scope of what they're doing.

It's not merely about how it inconveniences me, in fact, that's the last consideration. It's my job to send them out into the world with as good a start as possible. Yes, my son knowing other languages has no outright good or bad impact. But I know he'll have an advantage if he does, more than his father, and so I'd compel him to learn two others. If he finds no use for it in life, so be it.

So again, yes, I will overrule his own judgment, to a degree, but raise him with an eye toward the day when I won't overrule his judgment, even if given the choice.

Even if you have to make "command" decisions as a parent, you should be open and able to explain the basics of why you're making the decisions, and help the child trust you.

I really don't like dismissals as an excuse to end a discussion. That means you're not showing any respect for the other person.

@Ship: It seems an entirely arbitrary rule though. Because "it is sin" won't mean a whole lot if she chooses not to follow Christianity or other religions against homosexuality.

So you don't think a child could properly understand why homosexuality is wrong? Likewise are you not sending them out with a worse start by taking away from them all the experience they would gain by having a romantic relationship before being an adult? Does your child really have a better start if they have that pain but lack the sin of homosexuality? Also I'd cut you reference to Gab's post if I didn't know it was you (and that you're a reasonable person) I would draw from your reference that you think being a homosexual makes one not a successful adult. As Gab says that is what a parent must do and you say that Gab answered why you wouldn't let your kid have a same sex relationship.

Now I know you and that you're not out to offend people so I'm not going to get annoyed about it, but we know from experience that that doesn't hold true for everyone.

Likewise your insistence on imposing your will on a hypothetical child says to me that you don't have that much faith in some of your beliefs. If you are truly right about in what you believe then cannot someone as 'stupid' (I put stupid in quote marks because I believe you consider children much stupider then they are) as a child understand and agree with what you say? Without you having to force it upon them. To me if you have to force an belief on someone and can't really on it being a good belief that will win them over, says that one has very little faith in their belief.

edited 4th Apr '13 6:42:30 PM by Silasw

Depending on the parent depends what standards they feel are worth imposing.

Starship feels the best path is his interpretation of Christianity.

My priorities include teaching my son different faiths and allowing him to chose on his own if he feels one should be his own. However it is important to me to teach him tolerance, acceptance, and personal responsibility first.

There are many ways to teach core values. Religion is most popular because it is the easiest in a lot of ways. Because the Koran says, Jesus says, or the Buddha did it this way is very easy for a kid to understand and very comfortable for the adult.

I am of the opinion comfort is a muscle in a family. It needs to be worked out carefully. My son is growing up in a very frustrating situation that has made certain topics a needed lesson before I would prefer, but talking and educating about these issues from a young age is paramount in building the foundation of trust and communication so he can always talk to me and respect my instruction.

When is this?

Honestly, I think you should have more confidence in your theoretical progeny. It's not like you magically gain maturity and decision making ability the moment you turn eighteen.

It's something you gain from experience and practice.

Which.. you seem to be wanting to deny them, by making the choices for them.

In other words, the day when they have submitted to your will and believe exactly what you believe, hold the opinions that you hold, and do what you want them to.

Tell me, if your child wanted to follow another religion, would you let them?

Somehow, I doubt it.

I don't think he is gonna force his child into being a Christian. I think he will teach him or her to question and speak up if he or she disagrees. He has many times claimed we would do best to question our own views and not assume any malice from the other side after all.

@Ship: Though the rule against homosexuality is extremely arbitrary from the point of view of somebody who doesn't believe. Especially since no reason is given other than it is a sin under Christian teachings.

The only thing I can say is I honestly hope for all people that teachings of tolerance, respect, personal responsibility, and an open mind come first and supersede all others that come later on down the line, for anybodies kids.

I don't think I've seen him say anything about offering his child any input into decisions he made.

You can't date, because I think homosexuality is wrong.

You must learn two more languages, because I've decided it will be best for you.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:42:11 PM by Matues

It was a valid question Matues, but as Card said, that's not what I meant. I mean I'm going to teach my child what I believe to be the truth, and why I believe it, leaving them room to question or doubt it, as Trivialis pointed out.

But I will not, I cannot, and I must not force them to be Christians. If my child becomes an atheist, I will accept that. I don't intend to take my child to a mosque, but if they become Muslim, so be it.

The Christian belief holds that my child isn't really mine, but belongs to God. Therefore, it's about me preparing my daughter to be loyal servant to God and then to the rest of humanity. If they renounce that path...well, I'd hope I can say I did the best I could.

@Matues:

I feel this applies to many other things he feels have less bad consequences, that a child could reasonably expect to learn on their own.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:44:59 PM by Wildcard

I'm trying to understand why the whole dating-people-of-the-same-gender thing is somehow worse than actively renouncing your whole religion.

Point taken.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:46:08 PM by Matues

But if you can't force them to attend church why can you force them to not have a same sex relationship? Cus the Bible says a lot more about more about attending worship then it does about homosexuality.