Combine with Genocide Backfire?: Nice Job Breaking It Herod

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

This is going to be so much fun.

#1: May 30th 2011 at 5:43:29 AM

Somehow, that trope and Genocide Backfire involves committing genocide to kill the hero.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009

#2: May 30th 2011 at 7:28:59 AM

I could've sworn these were already merged. Support.

Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009

A pocketful of saudade.

#3: May 30th 2011 at 8:02:12 AM

I might be wrong, but isn't Nice Job Breaking It, Herod is a little more specific? Merge it as a Genocide Backfire Type D or something perhaps?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Delles The Snark Knight from Madmen Pavillion Since: Oct, 2010

The Snark Knight

#4: May 30th 2011 at 8:10:53 AM

Isn't it a subtrope of Genocide Backfire?

In war, courage. In peace, wisdom. In life, friendship.

Catalogue A pocketful of saudade. from where the good times are Since: Sep, 2009

A pocketful of saudade.

#5: May 30th 2011 at 8:12:58 AM

Soft merge?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

TheJackal Lurker from the UK Since: Dec, 2009

Lurker

#6: May 30th 2011 at 8:18:25 AM

There's certainly a lot of overlap, but as written it also contains examples of the Big Bad trying to kill the child that will defeat them that don't involve genocide, which obviously wouldn't fit if this was merged into Genocide Backfire. But even discounting that, I'd say this is distinct enough that it can remain as a subtrope of that more general trope.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001

#7: May 30th 2011 at 10:25:44 AM

Sister Trope to Genocide Backfire, with which it can and does overlap. The primary difference is that this trope is specific to a Big Bad trying to find a newborn Hero before they can be a threat. No more or less. Genocide need not be a part of the method. The main factor for whether or not such a situation is this trope is if the genocide is merely a means to an end (Kill Tribe A to prevent the rise of Child B) or an end in itself (Kill Tribe A to stop any rising, period).

Further, to quote the Archived Discussion, where I provided examples of the difference:

Greek hero Oedipus would count in this trope because his father feared the prophecies that the boy would eventually kill him and tried to kill Oedipus because of it. However, the king did not target any other infants outside of Oedipus himself, so this isn't a case of Genocide Backfire. On the other side, I offer the Dragon Ball example of Freeza destroying planet Vegeta. He did this with the intention of removing the general threat of a Saiyan becoming powerful enough to kill him. Despite the evading of this fate by baby Goku, this is not a Nice Job Breaking It Herod moment because Freeza wasn't targeting Goku specifically. He wanted all the Saiyans gone. Then we have situations like the "May Baby Mishandling" or the "Massacre of the Innocent", which could be considered cases of both tropes at once.

They are similar tropes. And they do overlap. In fact, the YKTTW

was originally "Infanticide Backfire" to work in line with Genocide, as it was originally meant as a subtrope. Though it does better fit the definition of a Sister Trope ("A related trope with the same idea, but different circumstances.")

When this has come up before, I think I remember it being suggested to split the trope itself up based on the Infanticide Backfire element and the "Make your own worst enemy" elements, but merging with GB was pretty much debunked as an option.

edited 30th May '11 10:41:09 AM by sgamer82

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

This is going to be so much fun.

#8: May 30th 2011 at 9:59:05 PM

There should be a reference in Nice Job Breaking It, Herod regarding Genocide Backfire then, since I don't see one before in the trope.

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001

#9: May 30th 2011 at 10:43:43 PM

Done.

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

This is going to be so much fun.

#10: May 31st 2011 at 11:48:30 AM

Okay, that should work. Lock this one up!