First thing's first: KEEP. THIS. SHIT. CIVIL. If you can't talk about race without resorting to childish insults and rude generalizations or getting angry at people who don't see it your way, leave the thread.
With that said, I bring you to what can hopefully be the general thread about race.
First, a few starter questions.
- How, if at all, do you feel your race affects your everyday life?
- Do you believe that white people (or whatever the majority race in your area is) receive privileges simply because of the color of their skin. How much?
- Do you believe minorities are discriminated against for the same reason? How much?
- Do you believe that assimilation of cultures is better than people trying to keep their own?
- Affirmative Action. Yea, Nay? Why or why not?
Also, a personal question from me.
- Why (in my experience, not trying to generalize) do white people often try to insist that they aren't white? I can't count the number of times I've heard "I'm not white, I'm 1/4th English, 1/4th German, 1/4th Scandinavian 1/8th Cherokee, and 1/8th Russian," as though 4 of 5 of those things aren't considered "white" by the masses. Is it because you have pride for your ancestry, or an attempt to try and differentiate yourself from all those "other" white people? Or something else altogether?
edited 30th May '11 9:16:04 PM by Wulf
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/editors/3/bringinghomeancestralremains/
Ainu remains are being repatriated to Japan, in part due to the racist policies done towards the Ainu community back in the 19th century. They have a complicated history.
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"
I have a question here. In this day and age, who do the Neo-Nazis hate more, Jews or Muslims?
I don't know about outside of /pol/ but given how many of them congregate there....
Those ones blame Jews for the muslims, saying that they secretly run the world some how...
Collector Of Fine Oddities
Jews. Neonazis may hate Muslims almost as much, but hold a begrudging respect for Islamic terrorism and the social control wielded by the Wahhabi followers of Saudi Arabia, with some seeing it as a model to emulate for their own (may it forever be hypothetical) state.
As much as neo-Nazis may hate feminists, progressives, Muslims, Mexicans, etc....it usually all comes back to Jews for them. If they aren't all about hating Jews, than they are probably better described as another aspect of the far-right, which isn't just neo-Nazis.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
You know, although they're awful, I get why the prejudice for those other groups exist (feminists, muslims, LGBTQ+ people, etc). The antisemitism, on the other hand, I've always found basically impossible to really understand because any time neo-nazis go on a tirade about the "international jewry" they always sound like 9/11 truthers, birthers, or other equally deluded people who basically think "down is up".
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
What do you mean the hatred for non Jews is understandable?
Oh really when?
The law in the night
Think about it, for the Neonazis the reasons why Muslims immigrants are flooding US and European soil is a machination of Jews.
Inter arma enim silent leges
Oh, bother.
The modern "Global Jewish conspiracy" garbage is rooted in the propaganda booklet The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. But that itself was written by an antisemite.
There's apparently just been a long-standing ignoble tradition of blaming Jews for everything.
Disgusted, but not surprised
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I assume they mean that the basis for hating those groups is relatively more tangible and graspable. Misogyny fueling hatred of feminism, religious fundamentalism fueling hatred of LGBT, etc.
Antisemitism comes off as intrinsically more conspiratorial. Although it's not like the others aren't, of course, "gay agenda" and all that. But then, it oftentimes just gets tied back to the Jews again.
Islamophobia gets roped in as well, especially once you take it to the levels of there being a global Islamist conspiracy, which is naturally being coordinated by the "cultural marxists" (Jews). Which is, of course, getting pushed in the White House.
it's a living
Most prejudice starts as a convenient, obvious other to scapegoat. Rather than accept blame or try and explain the actual complexities leading to various difficulties, like an economic downturn or an increasingly technological economy concentrating itself in major cities, it's far easier to just blame it on immigrants or a loss of 'family values'— visible minorities who don't have the wealth or influence to push back very hard. For a long time in a lot of Europe, Jewish people were simply the largest, most visible minority to be found, so a lot of that hatred became ingrained over hundreds of years.
None of it's really understandable, but if the Jewish conspiracy seems like it's been revealed for the fraud it always was, that has a lot to do with our development as a culture and society. Things have gotten better in some ways, and worse in others, but we've got a long road ahead of us no matter what.
The "logical" basis for the "International Jewry" conspiracy in its current form is a morph of the (plausible) fear of banks, of the invisible hand of the market and capitalism wreaking havoc upon your life. Which is a understandable sort of paranoia. Starting from the premise (of this vast international conspiracy of capitalist bankers rigging life against you) it is not all that difficult to associate Jews, an ethnicity historically strongly associated and stereotyped with banks and money-lending, with it. It gives a face and a tangible enemy to what would otherwise just be the vague concept of evil international capitalism.
You can see the working gears of this logic in a lot of neo-nazi youtube channels that talk about "the International Jewry" but always point out that's not the same as "regular Jews". Basically, Jews as the face of a capitalist conspiracy.
This basic logic (giving a human, tangible face to a abstract evil) is actually very common as far as conspiracy theories go. See: The Illuminati, The Globalists, The Bavarian Club, The 13 Families, e.t.c.
It's an attempt to ascribe a human, physical aspect to a abstract fear of the economy. Spice that with a dose of racism and there you have it, the seeds of modern neo-nazism.
"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Oh, bother.
Hence the whole "Red Shield" bullshit. If you don't know what that is...you're lucky.
I don't know what this is, and given the context I feel lucky.
I admit I am curious, but it sounds like the kind of thing I don't want in my search history.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Eschaton basically explained most of it, but just to make it extra clear:
I wasn't implying that hating those other groups is based on anything rational or legitimate, just that in terms of the societal factors that cause that hatred, those are easy to understand for me. Like, if you're some maladjusted kid who loves his hobby and is very insecure it's easy to understand why they hate feminists because they see them as outsiders who don't even care about the hobby and dislike them. It's wrong but I understand why they came to that conclusion.
By contrast, I don't really understand where the antisemitism comes from because it seems incredibly difficult to me to spin jewish people as being a) organized in any significant way in terms of a political cause unless you're talking about Israel, b) a danger to anyone.
@Gaon: Ok, that does add a lot of context I was missing, thanks.
edited 14th Aug '17 7:40:42 PM by Draghinazzo
Well said, I think a common point of confusion is that understanding =/= agreement. It's possible to completely understand someone's views and still consider them repugnant.
Oh, bother.
A lot of bigotry in general stems from incompetent assholes scapegoating those other people for problems a long, long time ago.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Another issue is that jew as minority are always.....there.
I mean you have things like inmigrant coming from diferent countries, with their evil virtues and all that, feminsim, LGTBQ people are subversives who goes against the manly virtues, jews are use as source or all that evil, the ultímate enemy that control everything else.
If I have t guess is how much jewness was used, not just as scapegoat but antithesis: jews use Money and go against working the earth or with your own hands, they are few which help the whole "little group of people", they whole belief that come close but not that close to chrisrisnity or in Many cases, they are atheist(for what I know a lot of jew are atheist) which goes against the whole concept ot religión.
In short jew become not the victim but the ultímate big bad for them
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
The Wanderer
Why are people still racist? What science says about America’s race problem
Many Americans responded to this weekend's violence in Charlottesville with disbelieving horror. How could this happen in America, in 2017? “This is not who we are,” said Virginia Sen. Tim Kaine (D).
And yet, this is who we are.
Amid our modern clashes, researchers in psychology, sociology and neurology have been studying the roots of racism. We draw on that research and asked two scientists to explain why people feel and act this way toward each other.
What causes people to be racist?
“In some ways, it’s super simple. People learn to be whatever their society and culture teaches them. We often assume that it takes parents actively teaching their kids, for them to be racist. The truth is that unless parents actively teach kids not to be racists, they will be,” said Jennifer Richeson, a Yale University social psychologist. “This is not the product of some deep-seated, evil heart that is cultivated. It comes from the environment, the air all around us.”
Richeson compares children's instinctive formation of biases to a student at a new school. “When you arrive at a new high school. You are instinctively trying to figure out who’s cool, who’s not, who’s a nerd, who gets beat up? Kids quickly acquire these associations,” she said.
To get a sense of just how pervasive and imperceptibly our environment can affect us, one study at Tufts University found that even with a TV show on mute displaying scenes with no explicit discrimination, the nonverbal body language of black and white actors interacting was enough to cause watchers to test higher for implicit bias afterward.
“An us-them mentality is unfortunately a really basic part of our biology,” said Eric Knowles, a psychology professor at New York University who studies prejudice and politics. “There’s a lot of evidence that people have an ingrained even evolved tendency toward people who are in our so-called 'in group.'”
But how we define those groups, and the tendency to draw divisions along racial lines, is social, not biological, he added. “We can draw those lines in a number of ways that society tells us,” he said.
Oh, bother.
The bits that stood out for me:
“The only way to change bias is to change culture,” Richeson said. “You have to change what is acceptable in society. People today complain about politically correct culture, but what that does is provide a check on people’s outward attitude, which in turn influences how we think about ourselves internally. Everything we’re exposed to gives us messages about who is good and bad.”
Think about that the next time you hear someone complain about "political correctness".
“There's data that shows young groups like millennials are more progressive and egalitarian. But that’s usually on issues like climate change or gay marriage, usually not in their level of implicit bias,” Richeson said.
Children aren't guaranteed to be better than their elders. The article points out that we can't just wait for older racists to die out and expect racism to die with them.
edited 15th Aug '17 1:02:13 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
I would say that there is need for actual political correctness, and not the dogmatic type you see on tumblr. People think they are the same thing, but it's not.
Oh, bother.
Thing is though, the kind you see on tumblr isn't always the kind people are complaining about. Sometimes they're just whining about other people calling them out on bigotry.
I do say that people have misused cultural appropriation to the point that they have criticized Ice T's wife just because she wore braids. Also in trying to seemingly stamp out ignorance, they actually can be just as ignorant on the subject.
I say if you are fighting ignorance, don't be as ignorant or mislabel something as ignorant.
edited 15th Aug '17 1:48:35 AM by firewriter
No, my point is that the bias isn't in the legal standard being applied, it's in the interpretation of that standard.
The standard is the same. If you say "is there a reasonable doubt of guilt?" and the answer is "yes", then the verdict is "not guilty". The problem isn't the standard. The problem is that when you ask jurors "is there a reasonable doubt of guilt?", then the answer is less likely to be "yes" if the defendant is black.
The reason this distinction is important is because if you say "we have to enforce the same standard in all cases!" then that won't help, because we're already doing that. What you have to address is the implicit bias that makes people think black people are more likely to be guilty in the first place. Which is a much more difficult problem.
Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.