Race- Privilege, Relations, Racism, etc.

To me, the point isn't entirely about the various ethnic groups that resided in ancient Egypt. The problem is that fair-skinned actors with European features are being cast in roles where darker members of the Fertile Crescent Valley are noticeably underrepresented. That was why I mentioned Christian Bale being cast as Moses. It's not so much that a person with his features (think Mediterranean) could reasonably pass as someone hailing from that region. The problem is that this historical likelihood is used as an excuse to steer away from more diverse casting decisions.

To use another example, there is a moderate possibility that someone like Jesus Christ could be a dark-haired man with slightly dark skin and blue eyes. Modern-day Persians have been known to exhibit these characteristics. However, the idea of portraying Jesus with more Arab features is met with reactionary resistance rather than curiosity.

It's a double standard that we've discussed too many times to count.

EDIT: In other words, if you're stuck on "well, some people in the Fertile Crescent did look kinda European", you're missing the point of why these casting decisions are so problematic.

edited 28th Feb '15 11:08:24 PM by Aprilla

Basically we need more of this.

On another note, contextualization will always follow the makeup of the character you are making. Changing an aspect of their being such as their ethnicity, income bracket or nationality will impact how audiences interpret that character and hopefully how that character responds to their setting. People bring their politics with them wherever they go, and fiction is no exception. We bring specific ideals and expectations with us when we consume our media, and it causes us to alter our perception of previously established characters as well.

A black Peter Parker having to cope with the death of Uncle Ben and the perceived ineptitude of law enforcement can and will raise important questions about how black youth feel about gun violence and police officers in the US, especially because of Ferguson and Trayvon Martin. Making Tony Stark autistic in light of discussions about autism in the media could have numerous implications about mental health and the STEM fields. Because of the War On Terror's impact on racial profiling and Arab-Western relations, making Bruce Wayne an Arab American would give way to some pretty fascinating questions about the nature of vigilante surveillance operations and who has a right to use them to deal out justice.

I even thought of what a Soviet Superman would be like, but that exploration has already been made with Superman Red Son.

In short, changing the character inevitably invites a different set of implications, and if nothing else, doing so offers some original ideas that can breathe life into the mythology of a canonized character.

edited 1st Mar '15 12:07:47 AM by Aprilla

Even if it has been already explored, I'd love to hear about that one.

As I understand it he crashed in Stalin's back yard rather than the Kents', and was raised by Stalin.

I mean Aprilla's idea. I have read the comic itself.

I'd not side with an exploration of Bruce Wayne as an arab-american, unless we transplant the setting to a city different than Gotham, at least culturally. Bruce Wayne is a reactionary figure, punching out people that go against the status quo, the point is there that he is descendant of the founding colonizers of the city back in colonial times. And making him a descendant of relatively new inmigrants would change up the basic idea there. And if we go into relative new inmigrant of rich parents or with heavy political power, then we aren't changing Bruce Wayne, we are repeating Don Diego de la Vega, a fresh of the boat criollo (or more recently a mestizo) coming to a corrupt town to deal out justice, as an arab-american.

I'd watch Arab Zorro.

The Wayne family having a hand in the founding of Gotham is such a minor footnote that I'm not really confident that it's all that relevant to the point I was making.

Remember I said "Arab American", not immigrant. This offers numerous possibilities up to and including the simple idea that Wayne would just be the same guy with Arab ancestry rather than European ancestry. Considering the history of Arab immigration to the United States, you wouldn't have to work that hard to rewrite Wayne's mythology as an Arab anymore than you would if you made him an African American...which was precisely my underlying point for the purposes of this thread.

The other issue I was getting at wasn't so much how an Arab Batman would affect the mythology of said character, but how audiences would implant their own political values into the subtext if the subtext hasn't been established by the author himself. If you have an Arab guy sitting on rooftops and beating up criminals in the same New-Yorkish setting we've all come to know, the 9/11 and War On Terror imagery should be quite apparent.

Could you imagine Batman having enemies that want to shut him down not just because he's a vigilante but because he's suspected of terrorism? His surveillance operations throughout the city would certainly heighten that tension just as the prospect of a Soviet-raised Superman raises some bone-chilling questions for Americans about what it would be like to be on the receiving end of a superpowered alien's intervention.

edited 4th Mar '15 4:30:53 PM by Aprilla

Man, that Huffington post thing about how bible characters would actually look like sure likes its exposed mannipples.

I know it sounds weird to notice that but, you know. It is really a lot of mannipple.

I also did not know that modern day persians tended to have blue eyes. Is the caucasian region known for having clear eyes, or darker eyes?

For that matter, Ra's Al Ghul is supposed to be Arabic too, right? An Arab-American Batman would be one hell of a counterpart. Definetly worth exploring.

I'm still interested to hear your version of a Soviet Superman.

I'm not yet sold, Aprilla, Having people react to batman as if he is a terrorist just becuase he is an arab...wait, how would they know he is arab and not just a generic brown person? Also, yes people are racist and xenophobic sure. As for an african-american, yes people could react to him as some street thug but eh, I still think that batman represents a reactionary figure more than anything, and superman is the one you can play as any ethnicity there: He is the ultimate inmigrant story.

Ligher eyes, but an olive or medium complexion. Blondes aren't unheard of from that area either. They're just more rare.

I have been told by my Persian and Arab friends that I could pass for a Persian if not for my red hair. But if I went blonde I could fit in well.

Honestly, the problem I have with the Huffington Post Article it's it's a complete swing in the opposite direction and still a miss. Making everyone look African American isn't the answer because there will be some people who look like that, but there will also be people who look like modern Mongolians, modern Kenyans, modern Spaniards, etc. This was the melting pot of the world. You would have all sorts of people visible through trading, emissaries, migration, conquest, etc.

Don't be afraid to use the whole human spectrum because that's not just historically accurate, it's fun and worth it.

I don't like how people warp history or use selective history to justify common day bigotry.

"Well, Heimdall can't be black because Scandinavians are white!"

"He's a god. He's not even human. He's a freaking god..."

"But Vikings were white?!"

Fun fact, I was born blonde. My hair is now dark.

Must be something in the water.

But yeah the melting pot things for the region would make it vary a lot would it not? Egypt did have a ptolemaic period!

It was the tall, dark and handsomeness of being Latino taking root as you matured!

I think it was just the sun.

Pfft. Darkened how? I am paler than a vampire nerd who has spent the last century playing D&D in the basement. Ok maybe not that pale but still pretty pale.

I thought the sun lightens the hair but darkens the skin?

Makes me wonder if some perception of race changes have ever happened before and after people were tanned. Hmmm...

I dunno, my palest cousins all had either red or blond hair and as they grew up it darkened for them. I on the other hand, was always dark haired and only got a progressive tan over my life.

To be fair about Heimdall, in the original myths, he's referred to as the "whitest of the gods". Idris Elba was awesome and I don't particularly care about race-lifting like that, but there is a tiny little bit of a point there. Really tiny since Thor was an adaptation of a comic book, not the original myths and legends.

Sounds like someone read and was like "Hey, guys, you know what would be really hilarious and PO mythology nerds?" and just so happened to find a really good actor for it to boot.

In the comics Thor also has very Asian looking cohorts at times and they kept his friend group diverse in the movies.

But who got the heat?

The huge black guy...

grr...

edited 2nd Mar '15 8:55:59 AM by Gabrael

We're just such easy targets. When a cast is that pale we stick out like sore thumbs, makes it easier for people to point to a thing and yell "INTERLOPERRRRRRRRRRRR".

I think Idris Elba did the role wonderfully, but the picked one of the only gods whose physical description is actually given in colour to change. I think it would have maybe worked a bit better if they'd given him bright white hair and armour to contrast with his skin rather than silver.

I thought this was common? All my siblings had their hair darkening with age. My younger brother used to be blond when a little kid, but now it is light brown. When my niece was born, no one expected her light blond hair to stay as such.

Pretty sure that is the case. I once became blond as a kid, when I expend a whole month playing in the beach (my hair was lighter back then as well).

I somewhat doubt they were referring to his skin color. In fact, was white skin referred as such back then? When you have no one else to compare too, it is hard to describe the Nordic skin tone as "white".

edited 2nd Mar '15 9:29:51 AM by Heatth

I had like white ass blonde hair but now it's all dark brown.