Vermont Signs Single-Payer Health Care into Law

Somehow I don't think raw and feral are the words I'd use to describe the government. I'm tempted to argue with you, but then I think, "what's the point? I already know what I'm going to hear and it's still not going to make the slightest bit of sense to me."

At any rate Kudos to Vermont, I hope it goes well.

edited 27th May '11 2:54:47 PM by Alichains

Deux, why don't you go live on an island somewhere and leave the rest of us alone? That's the only way you'll escape the force of governments making you do things. Seriously, this is such an asinine statement as to be utterly meaningless.

In a completely free market with no government supports for anything, do you know what happens? People die in gutters because they can't afford to eat, while rich people fifty stories up contemplate their next private jet purchase. Seriously, enough is enough with the Free Market libertarian bullshit. Are we human beings with feelings and compassion or savages scrabbling to stand atop one another's mutilated bodies?

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

You act like private charity only exists because of government or something... Nothing stops you from helping someone on your own free-will, and indeed is admirable. To force someone else to part with their belongings is a mugging, and is morally reprehensible no matter what language you use.

edited 27th May '11 3:10:44 PM by deuxhero

I thought charity only existed because people are afraid they're going to be punished by a scary dude in the sky.

But hey, you can opt-out. Just don't expect anybody to help you.

edited 27th May '11 3:11:41 PM by blueharp

You underestimate humanity's... humanity.

Not when I can hear a dozen stories about being scammed by fellow human beings, including a few who pretended to be engaging in charity.

I'll stick with the government, which I must insist on being transparent, accountable, and answerable. Because it's run by humans too, and my fellow human beings, them I don't trust.

But let's stick with Vermont here.

How are they going to solve traveling issues? Will those be separate billing services?

edited 27th May '11 3:17:46 PM by blueharp

Libertarian derail in 3...2...1...

@Blueharp, by travelling issues do you mean stuff like people going to other countries? I seriously am wondering what you mean by that, as far as definitions go. If you mean travelling around the state, I can say with great satisfaction that it has an excellent public transport system in the form of their buses.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

Good on Vermont. About time an American single-payer system got a proof of concept run.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

People who travel in, or out of the state, and need healthcare.

In current society, private charity has not eradicated poverty. This, alone, proves that in a totally free market, you'd end up with a handful of rich and a heck-of-a-lot of poor.

Actually, that sounds a little like America now. Except there's some help from the top to the bottom, from government.

And the government hasn't either. In-fact, government has detailed valid arguments on making it WORSE. Private charity doesn't.

Stick to the topic of Vermont at least.

Vermont is near two major urban sprawls, will they be able to get the medical vendors there to work with them?

edited 27th May '11 4:32:05 PM by blueharp

@Deux: I live in smalltown highly conservative bible belt territory. The extent of the average person's humanity here tends to be sending money to people who just got hit with a disaster, preaching to the living ones about how theyre so lucky that jesus spared their lives, then promptly forgetting them the second theyre out of the news cycle or it becomes an actual tax burden or inconvenience on their own lives to care about others.

Salt of the earth people are dicks, by and large. truly charitable people are rare and mostly arent the ones with money.

edited 27th May '11 4:56:34 PM by Midgetsnowman

^^Which sprawls are you refering to? Because urban is one word not associated with VT.

Vermont's a weird state. On the one hand you've got your truck driving, Bud loving, stereotypical rednecks (although they tend not to be quite as racist, their opinions of blacks stem from never having seen one, not deep-running hatred). On the other you have a lot of artistic liberal folks there because of the colleges and a bunch of well, hippies.

It's an awesome state and this just goes to make that more so. It's Dem controlled, but the Reps up there are fairly reasonable from what I've heard.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

I think it may be "Near" which is fooling you, or did you not think of New York City and Boston for some other reason?

Might even count Montreal, I guess.

edited 27th May '11 6:34:44 PM by blueharp

Oh yeah, I wouldn't count either. It's a day long drive from my place, not far from NYC, to anywhere in Vermont worth going. Boston's a bit better, but only by an hour or two.

Plus rail in it's current state is a nightmare.

No, there isn't any sort of useful proximity.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

I lived in Burlington, its largest town city, for about 9 months. I love the state and I hope this gets it even better.

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry

For routine care, sure, for specialist care, that's another story. People go across the country to get some treatments.

Oh well yeah, but I don't think that's the main target of the law.

Plus VT has some very good health services, all thos mountians and people clambering over them gives them reason and expirence.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.

While routine care is certainly more prevalent, the extreme cases tend to be quite expensive, and so while few in number, they can be quite a substantial burden for a system. And they're certainly a major burden for a person.

If that happens, it will be no big deal, since people can just move out of Vermont or change it. No need to get worked up if you don't live there.

In fact, if more states do go single payer, it might help make a federal level program a moot point, without causing any problems for inhabitants of more libertarian-minded states.

So yay for Vermont, and more power too them! If it works really well maybe my state will do the same. If it doesn't, we'll try to restrain our told-you-so's.

<><

Laughing my head off at the idea that public healthcare is the immoral option. Quite the opposite, I'm utterly sickened by people who are against it. The reason is that people with that view consider altruism to be some kind of evil sin, which is pathetic (they'd deny it, but those views are still indicative of that principle).

This is fantastic news for Vermont, and I really hope they're the first of many.

edited 28th May '11 10:57:11 AM by CaissasDeathAngel

My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.

Tell me: How is theft moral?

It may not be moral, but it's one of two things in life that are guranteed. The other is death.

Charlie Tunoku is a lover and a fighter.