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Women are the more beautiful sex
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Women are the more beautiful sex:

Over 10,000 dead.:<
Not to me. Women frequently have larger breasts and gigantic hips.:P
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[up][up][up]I really think it has more to do with obnoxiousness of [1]s. Basically, people who think that Girl on Girl Is Hot aren't that likely to obsess over it
"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Oh wow, I just thread hopped. I had no idea my response would be relevant, and we would be discussing androgyny and how hips and breasts are related to them.

I need to make a topic about androgyny, and how fatness is NOT particularly related to it. It sounds like.

Or maybe I can just feed this thread derail.

Are people seriously, seriously arguing that a woman being skinny makes her more androgynous? And that being "fatter" makes her more feminine? I suppose in a heterosexist society, that can be sort of affirming of bigger women, in a twisted sort of way. Maybe not. What about Beccabae? Her breasts are itty bitty. I hope most people who claim to like curvy women, are attracted body types like hers, as well.

edited 1st Jun '11 4:48:56 AM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
 204 Jeysie, Wed, 1st Jun '11 9:09:23 AM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
Are people seriously, seriously arguing that a woman being skinny makes her more androgynous? And that being "fatter" makes her more feminine?
No, that was kashchei missing my actual point like whoa, and then derailing the thread further with moon logic. Skinniness or fatness on their own have zero to do with my intended point.

I don't especially like extremely fat women either; after looking up pics (or what I assume are pics), I find Beccabae unappealing for reasons entirely not related to the size of her breasts.

Plus I was deliberately trying to phrase my statement in a way that made it clear I wasn't trying to refer to super-buxom or perfect hourglass women, but that didn't work it seems.

I suppose in a heterosexist society, that can be sort of affirming of bigger women, in a twisted sort of way.
I was going for trying to affirm women who are often called fat and cow-like just for having what is actually fairly healthy and normal-sized development/prominence of female secondary sexual characteristics, and other people twisted it in a way I absolutely did not remotely mean.

edited 1st Jun '11 9:11:08 AM by Jeysie

Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
Why so serious?
Are people seriously, seriously arguing that a woman being skinny makes her more androgynous?

It's not that far-fetched a statement. The different distributions of both body fat and muscle mass are considered secondary sex characteristics in humans, and in thin people, these differences become less prominent.

I find slim people of both genders to be the most attractive.

Bibliophile.
Neither. Humans are ugly. Tailless bipedalism just looks wrong.
  1. Never be without a Hat!

Hot means heat. I don't care if your usage dates to 1300, it's my word, not yours.

My Pm box is open.
We are not the most aesthetically pleasing of mammals, I do agree.

inb4 bestiality
"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey
-Sigh- No, I did not mean that.

Just joking
"Take your (...) hippy dream world, I'll take reality and earning my happiness with my own efforts" - Barkey
"No, that was kashchei missing my actual point like whoa, and then derailing the thread further with moon logic."

Your intended point has no bearing on the conversation unless it's lucidly expressed, and what you actually expressed was that women who aren't particularly curvy look prepubescent.

"The different distributions of both body fat and muscle mass are considered secondary sex characteristics in humans, and in thin people, these differences become less prominent."

As they do in the fat ones, and this is as morbid levels of either direction. For people who are in the healthy weight range - which can include both thin and thick - the difference is largely based on one's build. As an example, apart from the pictures I posted earlier showing girls a good forty pounds apart with the same hips-to-waist ratio, I have two cousins who are biological sisters a couple of years apart. Both are very tall, though one is thin and one is athletic. The athletic one is heavier, but the thinner one has bigger breasts and wider hips. It just seems like an incredibly unproductive generalization to make, since, even if there is a pattern, the exceptions are much too common.
And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
 213 Black Humor, Wed, 1st Jun '11 4:52:18 PM from Zombie City
"Lucidly"? Why "lucidly"? If what you mean is "clearly" use clearly.

(Wouldn't normally point that out, but since it's specifically about speaking clearly I couldn't pass up the irony.)
I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1
 214 Jeysie, Wed, 1st Jun '11 5:07:34 PM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
[up][up]

I agree in retrospect my initial statement was ambiguous, but even after I explained what I really meant, you not only kept carrying on with the interpretation I already thoroughly explained wasn't the case, but added on even more bizarre interpretations.

...kind of like right now, for instance.
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Being androgynous definitely doesn't make you look young.

Perhaps we need a thread about androgyny.

edited 1st Jun '11 5:15:18 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
 216 Loni Jay, Wed, 1st Jun '11 7:24:30 PM from Australia Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
@ nzm Aesthetically. Aesthetically pleasing, not sexually.

Although I disagree. Humans look wierd, yeah, but a ballet dancer can be just as beautiful as a tiger or a eagle or whatever.
Be not afraid...
""Lucidly"? Why "lucidly"? If what you mean is "clearly" use clearly.

(Wouldn't normally point that out, but since it's specifically about speaking clearly I couldn't pass up the irony.)"

No, I meant lucidly, as in intelligibly and rationally. Next time, if another compulsion strikes you to voice that you know what I mean better than I myself do, keep it to yourself because this is a waste of my time and yours.

edited 1st Jun '11 7:29:11 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
Lover of masks.
Never mind going to just ninja your next post.

edited 1st Jun '11 7:37:47 PM by TheDeadMansLife

Please.
"I agree in retrospect my initial statement was ambiguous, but even after I explained what I really meant, you not only kept carrying on with the interpretation I already thoroughly explained wasn't the case, but added on even more bizarre interpretations."

You kept dragging weight into it, whereas I kept saying that weight has little bearing on the hips-to-weight ratio and such. If that is your thorough explanation, it only reinforces my "misinterpretation."
And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
 220 Jeysie, Wed, 1st Jun '11 8:12:36 PM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
[up] No, you kept dragging weight into it all on your own, thanks, so I was stuck having to deal with responding to the words you kept putting into my mouth.
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
Plus, it's ironic you bring up eating disorders, when part of the reason I made my comment to begin with is that I'm kind of tired of the media pretending that the ideal woman is one that's overly thin and has almost no curves, despite the fact that noticeable breasts, hips, and a belly are female secondary sexual characteristics. So seeing one of the typical media-glorified thin, non-curvy women held up by a poster as being the "ideal" kind of bugged me.

Wow, we must not be watching the same media, then. The one where women who are larger than an 8 are considered fat, and a woman gaining a whole 5 pounds has every popular magazine crying about how she's getting fat? The one where every woman who actually has noticeable curves (or ample boobs that are actually combined with a larger waist rather than a stick-thin one) tends to be cast as the Hollywood Pudgy?

Plus I find it fucking ridiculous that I'm getting jumped on when my post was supposed to be a 100% positive rejection of the media's notion that super-thin women are ideal and hot. Is agreeing that woman are only attractive when they starve themselves skinny supposed to be the correct thing to say and I missed it?

Yeah, I guess it's so denigrating to women to look at BH's idea of a typical media woman who's skinny and has almost no breasts and hips, and say I prefer the more typical-sized woman who's got some meat on her and has a belly, average-sized breasts (B-C), has pudgy hips, etc.

I meant that boobs and hips are kind of standard female secondary sexual characteristics, so it seems odd and kind of insulting that the media likes to define super-skinny women who have barely-there boobs and hips as being "ideal".

edited 1st Jun '11 8:23:18 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?
Over 10,000 dead.:<
I would just like to say that, whatever anyone else has said.

Yes, children lack secondary sex characteristics. But the things that make them look young fall into the area of "neoteny", not androgyny. Androgyny is not neotenous. One problem our society has, is that neoteny is associated with femininity, when it shouldn't be.

Fatness does also not make a woman more feminine anymore than it makes a man feminine. Body fat is pretty neutral in what it does to make a person feminine and masculine. Wide hips are a bone structure, and women often do not gain larger breasts than men when putting on overall body fat. Murray Hill and Beccabae both have androgynous amount of breast size, despite both not being anywhere near the Hollywood ideal for skinny.
One cause boyish looking women to feel bad while the other has been key factors in death.
Would you consider Murray Hill to be feminine?

edited 1st Jun '11 8:26:03 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
 223 Jeysie, Wed, 1st Jun '11 8:55:57 PM from Western Massachusetts
Diva of Virtual Death
@kashchei

Yes, I was referring to both the media's fetish for unnaturally skinny women (as in, dieted thin), and the mistaken impression the media puts forth that having moderately prominent breasts versus barely-prominent ones means you're "fat" even when you're actually not.

Nowhere at all did I say that normally skinny women always necessarily lack curves, or that fat women necessarily have curves. Or that skinny women were less feminine than fat women.
Apparently I am adorable, but my GF is my #1 Groupie. (Avatar by Dreki-K)
Over 10,000 dead.:<
Err, the media impression is unfortunately that Bigger Is Better.

It would be nice if this weren't the case, though. And I applaud it when media appraises smaller breasts, for a change.

Not that I've ever heard anyone in the media call large breasts "fat". But if they did, I'd probably laugh and go "that's awesome", the same way I would if someone in the media say a heavy woman with a good portion of body fat was "curvy" and a "real woman". Which I have done, and it's somewhat awesome, if do to the funny subversion of social expectations.

I wouldn't want large breasted women to actually be considered fat. But I have to say I would be amused to hear it instead of offended. "Look at that fat cow of a playboy bunny. She's got D cups!". *snicker*

Okay, okay, I'll admit. I want just a little revenge on Bigger Is Better. Just a little. Don't hate me for it. My cousin got breast enlargement surgery because she's felt ugly her whole life due to her small breasts. When she should have felt awesome and beautiful.

edited 1st Jun '11 9:05:42 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]
 225 blackcat, Wed, 1st Jun '11 9:07:00 PM Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
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