A single unified LGBTQ+ conversation

So with the transphobic bullshit Atlus is doing with the Catherine remake, that's fully cemented that I will never ever touch anything they make.

...Oh right I forgot I got autoblocked by her after false-positiving on an anti-abuse filter.

So I just had The Talk™ with my brother. It went surprisingly well, my normal anxieties aside.

There's probably an interesting meta to be written in how Maui in Moana is so heavily bro-y, yet there's a line in "You're Welcome" where he refers to himself as a "just an ordinary demi-guy". Yeah, yeah, it's a bit of wordplay that accidentally hit on a term the lyricist wasn't aware existed, but I'm sure there's a good essay in interpreting Maui as being genderqueer yet performatively hyper-masculine.

claps with my demiguy hands

About time someone brought that lyric up in this thread. Praise.

So yeah, I squared things with one member of my immediate family. Now just need the confidence to do the same with my parents.

Good luck, Deebs. I could never muster up the courage to come out to my family, no no. So that's a step forward for you compared to me.

Anyway, re: demiguy- what if Maui's gender references the presence of a third gender in Polynesian society.

That soul crushing realization when you realize that Atlus is progressive because they actually show LGBT characters, regardless of quality. Because Japan.

Persona 2 is THE BEST without question. Also really helps that the lead writer considers that pairing canon.

Persona 4 is okay. Kanji is confirmed LBGT. Naoto is less about gender issues and more about sexism in the police force that Naoto works with. The fact that Naoto in the Golden Ending after where you save the new character is way more feminine says that the gender issues that Naoto supposedly represented were unintentional. At least to me.

As for Catherine, I expect some Cosmic Horror bullshit with Rin and her gender or lack there of. This is a game where the Babylonian gods are real and one of the love interests turns out to be a succubus. As for Erica, while the in-universe treatment for her in the American localization makes sense because the Babylonian gods are a bag of dicks and only care about human bearing children. Out of universe, it's pretty awful. I almost never usually look at concept art or anything like that for games like these. I tend to look at it l experience it.

edited 27th Dec '17 3:59:40 AM by heliosKAISER

Does Erica's treatment look bad? I seem to remember it being okay, since the guy who's actually in a relationship with her doesn't care—though I guess the way her other friends act about the whole thing is pretty shitty. It's also been a while since I saw it so I may be misremembering some stuff.

IIRC, Toby was infatuated with Erica, all of Erica's childhood friends tried to discourage him from pursuing her for an unstated but obvious reason, then they have sex (which Toby remarks "feels weird"), and then he learns that she's a post-op trans woman and is disgruntled that she didn't tell him that she 'used to be called Eric'. So basically 'sex with trans people is weird' with a side helping of 'oooh, this wily trans woman deceived me by not telling me she's trans.'

And then there's the whole 'Erica is a victim of the male-exclusive nightmares', which you could say is the villains being bigots in-universe, but I don't think it's ever elaborated on beyond serving as "foreshadowing" that she "used to be a guy".

Also Kanji isn't confirmed LGBT. I really wish he was, and personally I think the writing is explicit enough about him being gay/bi, but the writers left it deliberately ambiguous and now straight people will swear up and down that he's not gay, he was just confused, his arc isn't about being gay, he just pulled a Macklemore, etc. etc.

...Well fuck a whole barrel of that shit.

Homophobic and transphobic bullshit is most certainly not more progressive than just not showing us. Fuck that

Frankly it's insulting to say that these offensive games are somehow progressive when they're using insulting stereotypes like this.

iirc, the gay relationship with Tatsuya and Jun was only included as an option in Persona 2 "to appeal to yaoi fangirls" according to an old interview. My flawed memory might be mixing things up, though.

Also, my personal interpretation of Kanji (fav character btw) was always that he's pansexual. It makes a lot of sense to me.

And my opinion on the whole Rin thing... Honestly, what we know about Rin so far really rubs me the wrong way, but considering that there will be an entire new route revolving around her, I have some degree of hope that maybe she'll turn out to be much better handled than she seems right now. I mean, maybe I'm being too optimistic, but eh.

tl;dr I think I'll wait and see before making any judgement, although I am already not too found of how it initially looks and find the backlash to be totally understandable..

edited 27th Dec '17 4:36:04 PM by Konkfan7

So it only took being around my maternal aunt for about twenty minutes to remember why I feel presenting openly around my family would end badly.

I can't do it even though my family is mostly supportive and being gay is not as, let's say, radical to some people as being transgender is, so I admire the courage of a lot of tropers here.

Anyway, being in Amsterdam and seeing the number of LGBT flags hanging in the streets just amazes me and makes me happy for the city's community, there isn't a single one in my hometown.

Yeah so fuck this week. This is the longest amount of time I've spent with my parents since I've started college in Pensacola and I'm feeling dysphoric as hell. I thought my parents understood when I said I wasn't cis but they never followed up on it and just refer to me with male pronouns. I want to tell them to stop but I'm scared I'll make a scene and piss them both off. I already got into a fight with my mom last week about stupid shit, I don't have the energy for another confrontation.

The more I'm around them, the more I realize how much resentment I've held back against them both. They micromanage so much of my life and order me around with trivial bullshit to rub it in how I should work harder all the time. They don't understand anything about social justice or anything LGBT and I can barely communicate with them about it without one of them sticking their foot in their mouth. They don't understand my atheism and are convinced I don't really believe in it. More and more I slowly realized how much anger and resentment I've held back due to them and now I'm scared of even telling them.

It's funny how, as you grow up, you start realizing how much resentment you hold towards your family. How, after holding them on a pedestal for so long, it all comes down. I do still think my parents are good people trying to hope for the best for me, but it angers me that I should even feel scared of this. I just want them to fucking learn but they won't.

I've been talking to my counselor at college about some of this. She convinced me to attend meetings of an LGBT group they have at the university, which I'll do in the coming up semester. I haven't felt this open about anything in ages. In college, I don't have to hold back my beliefs and I don't have to pretend I'm cis. I can actually tell people I'm non-binary and they'll respect my identity. I can't wait for this break to end. I want to go back.

Sorry if this turned into a disjointed ramble but I just really needed to vent.

I mean my brother did offer to talk things through with our parents. I'm kicking myself for saying "let's leave that for now because I don't feel ready".

I think I will look back on today as the day where I discovered I was definitely gay, after having one of the most beautiful guys I've seen in my life serving me food at a restaurant. It feels silly writing this, but that whole moment was very special.

Also looks like I failed to achieve the goal I set myself this time last year.

X4 Venting is good, it’s what this thread is for. One thing that may help is that post-college you’re have more independence, it’s a long way off and doesn’t help now but once you’re financially independent it doesn’t matter if you get into an argument with your parents, because you can tell them to fuck off and choose not to deal with them.

Sometimes I forget how lucky I am to have grown up in a house where talking back to my parents was basically encouraged, as long as I was right.

So I'm trying to work out what I'd even say to my parents at this point since I have no idea what they already know.

What exactly are you planning on telling them? Also, good luck and I hope they respond well.

Talking through my intent to transition full time. Stuff like that.

Oh man, I completely underestimated just how much I missed shaving my body hair. It's such a small thing, but it helps me feel sooooo much more feminine and comfortable in my own skin! <3