Does a such thing as a Mongoloid, Caucasoid, or Negroid skull exist?

Eh, the problem is that I am thinking, thinking about things that shouldn't be thought about. One of the more adept observation . It's not such great logic also to say I'm not learning anything, humans learn something every day of their lives. Or rather, I think that's a bit poor of wording for what you are trying to say or really mean. I do know what is going on, and I have come to my behaviour by the conclusion of thinking about things, even if you do not think it is the right conclusion. I think this isn't such a good way of using "thinking" and "emotional" at all.

Nope, I've read Stormfront and other White Nationalist sites. Ironically, real white natioanlists are overall less offended by a lot of this stuff I like that admittedly doesn't much all that well with white nationalism, for the most part. In fact, it seems like a lot of the people that say things like this, say they're opposed to white nationalism and racism. I've heard people who say things like this claim to be antifas more than I've seen people who say things like this claim to be white nationalists or the like. Strangely enough, some of them have tried to reach out their hand to me.

I don't think that's true at all, at least not on the internet. It's everywhere.

Sigh, maybe we should split this topic and make a new one. Admittedly, this is a topic I think is personally worthy of this section. It seems controversial and I've noticed many people do not agree on whether such a thing as a Caucasoid skull exists. If you could do that, I think that would be the best method.

That's... a good piece of advice I've been told many times. It's hard to follow and find a path to follow it without the same excuses and justifications I've been making already, if those justifications and excuses and odd path hasn't already become a fundamental part of who I am by now at this point. I'm not exactly sure anymore what I want to do deep down, it has become a bit foggy. I have no clue what I truly want to do deep down. And if my true desire is to go back to reclaiming my dreams at 18 that I have deep down, hidden within me, I don't exactly know how to gather the strength to go back to it and dicipline myself, as I've been falling into escapism for years and it will be a habid to break. My mind just frequently wants to give up on everything and do whatever I feel told to do. I don't know how to pick of the reigns again exactly and where to start.

Even if I go back to exactly what I was doing before I took a break from it due to intrusive thoughts, and coming on the internet to attempt to alleviate it(which as always, only made it worse), was playing Tales of Symphonia. I'd been hyped for the game for several years by various people, including some Presea nut and an Asch(Abyss) and Marta nut and Kratos nuts and some other people at Doujinstyle. That postive energy itself is probably a reason I liked and enjoyed playing the game so much. And so if I go back to playing it, it'll be hard to remember that again, and just "do what I like" based on that positive energy and hype that has helped me play the game. And I only got to this point really because those same people told me I was talking about Cirno, Touhou, and praising ZUN's art style too much(If You Know What I Mean). Saying do what you like, while definitely good advice, is also diffcult to implement because of it's simplicity. I don't know exactly what I want, and I don't exactly go about doing it. Again, if I go back to playing it, and I don't know if it's truly what I want(though for the moment, my mind does want that joy back, I'm kind of set on becoming a Tales of fanatic), I'll be burdened by thoughts and memories of how thousand of people think jRPGs are awful and their fans are pathetic and tasteless. They're wrong, they're stupid, I hate them, but the thoughts will be there. I want to go back to feeling like I'm finally in the the party again, of a good game with a cool fandom. A home of sorts. That's part of what appeals to me. And if I do that, I won't be hyped, because my mind will tell me "nobody is excited about or cares about your stupid jRPGs. Keep it to yourself if you like that degenerate guilty pleasure. Or go play Oblivion." That's what my mind will tell me no matter how many times I ignore it, and I will struggle to get past it like a tough boss. Making the game frustrating and just making me want to quit. Trying to ignore those thoughts is like trying to play with a broken controller.

I guess my temporary, less lofty desire than trying to go back to my Japanophilic dreams, is to go Tales of nut again. It was cut off suddenly the other day from intrusive thoughts. And I went on the internet hoping for them to go away and not get worse. I want to finish Tales of Symphonia several times, getting lost of in the Occidental and Oriental(often Japanese culture) everywhere, blondes and "Mizuho" people, half-elves weilding Kendama, European outfits, Japanese and European swords, and a tightly woven interpersonal conflict that gives me food for thought and makes me feel like they're real even after I've put the controller down. That virtual world kind of hugged me a bit and I wanted to stay lost up in it and comfortable as a fan of that in the world. And then I wanted to play Dawn of the New World no matter how disappointing people said it was, and go replay the others and finish all of the ones I haven't. Then go post about in the forums without worrying about spoilers, draw a little fanart maybe, and learn Mirrors by Motoo Fujiwara for my keyboard. I guess that's my temporary, current comfort and desire. If a bit geeky and fanatical seeming. When I can self esteem in it, it comforts me. I really like Tales of games and I like being able to feel excited about it and have esteem in it. And I'm not sure where to get it back, whether the desire comes from, and it maybe the desire itself is a bit obsessive and part of a problem I need to avoid.

I hate to sound rude, and it is good advice, but it's a bit too simplistic to have fixed my problem. Trying to implement this advice has turned out to be quite a doozy. I tried seeking a psychologist in order to get help, one of the few in my town and I struggled to find her, wants to have me admitted to a hospital and thinks I am a danger to myself and others.

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

I'm not sure there's much more to be said about skulls, TBH. It's not a subject many people are comfortable with discussing, and it's one which even fewer people regard as significant, I think.

If you're that upset by race, why are you reading Stormfront? It's a fucking Nazi site, of course it's full of white nationalists. Besides, when you're sufficiently obsessed with something, you will see it everywhere, regardless of how common it is in relation to other things. It doesn't sound to me like you're distinguishing between jokes about "acting white/black/Asian", racist troll comments and actual racial supremacists, which probably doesn't help. Not all racists are equally racist.

I can imagine you might see white supremacists who have no problem with elements of East Asian culture, because due to various cultural and geographic factors, the cultures that have dominated on the global stage in recent history have been largely Eurasian ones, which has allowed this myth of Indo-European supremacy (with white ethnic Europeans and possibly the Japanese implictly on top, of course) to develop. That doesn't make white supremacists any less racist or their claims any more supported by science or history as a greater whole.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Ahahahahaha, why does this make me want to laugh in glee? Ooooooh, this is not something you should be telling me. Do you remember my words in the "I think I'm becoming a fascist weirdo" and "is it racist" thread about things like Turanism and Eurasianism and Mukokuseki?

You do realize I want an dagger of justification to like Asian culture I can have at all, don't you? And I have a grudge and pain I wouldn't mind pressing onto others.

I went to Stormfront because of just that. Well, various things. I wanted closure, I wanted to and had the psychological stress to "whiten" myself, and I took comfort in the fact, that people so racist as Stormfront members, actually had quite a few nice things to say about various Asian ethnicities. I'm not sure how far the rabbit hole goes of my psychological problems about this, but it puts a creepy, sadistic smile on my face, for the first time all day, what I just read.

This isn't going in a great direction, at all. It's making me feel like I have more in common with white supremacists again than anti-racists, as one who likes Asian culture as a Westerner. Instead of going into better detail about the subject of how I can care less what others think, my psychological excuses are being mirthfully fed.

Funny that this is such the subject, skulls, by the way, when our own article on Mukokuseki does this very thing when talking about Final Fantasy X. Senstive subject, economic dominance, I knew it! Ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Ohohohohohoho! Oh yes, hah. This is rich. Rich, deliciously evil, you Stormfront folks are useful, indeed! Hahahaha. Ah, this feels good, far too good.

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

You don't need to "justify" liking Asian culture.

Did you just completely ignore my last sentence, or what?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were already a white supremacist and were just looking for affirmation that your passion for anime wasn't a betrayal of the Glorious Master Race™.

And no, I can't make you stop caring what idiots think. That has to come from you, and it will take effort.

edited 16th May '11 7:02:13 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Add Skaði Forum to your list of internet masochism—the place is practically a source of entertainment.

Banned entirely for telling FE that he was being rude and not contributing to the discussion. I shall watch down from the goon heavens.

Bobby G is wise.

Is that a picture of Maeby Funke?

Hodor

I don't care what's racist or white supremacist anymore. I only want my North. I want my Asia. I want to like the cultures I like without guilt or shame or contrast or hatred of others. This only exists because Europe and Asia have not been united in their entirety. I have no interest in a world that does not celebrate those people and things caught in between Europe and Asia. And if a sacrifice had to be made, and I was in a position to sacrifice anything and it have any affect on the world around me, any sacrifice would be worth it. Let those caught up in the painful ethnic struggles on the world platform, let those suffering the most win! Hohoho. May the world starve for it's great wall between East and West. I care not. By the way, if you out there actually get a portion of what is being said by me by now, and including and up till now, instead of just seeing it as the incoherent babble of an insane being, there will be cake...

Considering my interests, White Nationalists and Neo-Nazis and the like, are probably the least of my enemies in this world. There are white supremacists who have reasons for liking certain Asian cultures and countries, perhaps as even equal to them. Delicious... absolutely delicious. What mirth! Even among the most racist, there is hope for East and West. Yes, the overlap between east and west, it is racist, isn't it? Skull types, race and intelligence controversy, tocharians, honorary aryans... oh my. It is no wonder people are so vicious toward that caught in between. Then... I should turn a blind eye to white supremacy. I love how I'm wearing out my chances of being sympathized with on any level. Ohoho. I don't need sympathy, though. This is just the natural result I encounters as being a person who became interested in Asian culture and could not let go. Crazier and crazier sounding with every word... oh life.

Is [1]this the one you're talking about? I've been there before. It's cute, they have a member there, I don't remember his name, but he had a picture of Hitler stomping on Captain America. And he dated an Asian woman and saw no problem with it. Of course, many other users gave him various heck for it. But it's cute that "one of them" was perfectly okay with it.

edited 16th May '11 7:39:21 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

^^ It's actually Jessica Rose as Bree Avery, expressing her disapproval. I was going to just use an emoticon, but it somehow didn't seem dispproving enough.

I was particularly unimpressed with the "Bwahahaha sadistic smile, Evil Feels Good" aspects of Ukon's post.

Fucking ninjas.

Ukon, what about the part about unsupported by science or by history as a whole?

edited 16th May '11 7:39:30 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Hmm, guess it's a case of Identical Stranger.

Hodor

Well, it's hard for me to be sensitized to that "even if white supremacy is okay with Asians, it's still white supremacy", and the idea that talking about skull shapes and the race and intelligence controversy, when I don't see how it works against my immediate desires. If anything, the Asian loving white supremacist talk of people like Jared Taylor works in my favor. If anything, it's a great counterbalance to all those "anti-racists" who think that mixing with Asians is stupid and Japan needs to be bombed again. I don't see why I should take the "high road" when it doesn't benefit me at all.

It seems as if "real racism", is actually less harmful, in ways, than "fake racism".

I don't know exactly what that picture meant exactly, but I can't blame you for using it, for certain.:D

edited 16th May '11 7:45:04 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

If, y'know, you don't actually give a shit about the actual lives of real people and instead are fixating on mean things that people say on the Internet.

This is actual, overt racism. Nothing remotely anti-racist about that. Stop conflating diametrically opposed positions just because you disagree with both of them.

edited 16th May '11 7:49:14 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Well, there are real people behind such statements. And I think it symbolizes a real divide between the East and West.

These opinions are sadly less of a minority than I'd like. I don't think I am living in a world near friendly enough to those caught between East and West.

I'm glad you think that. I wish I didn't think I was alone in thinking that.

Heck, I've been told my certain ethnocentric Han Chinese people, that not agreeing with that is white supremacy. Heck, we have ethnic classes in America with teachers telling students things like they don't support video games, because video games support the fetishization of Asian women. It's no wonder that Arizona doesn't think these things are a good idea which teachers such as this giving it a bad name.

edited 16th May '11 7:54:53 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

There is a real cultural divide between East and West with some nasty racial implications behind it. Actual anti-racist people are against it. The fact that some white supremacists are also opposed to it changes nothing, because white supremacists are still bigoted cunts no matter what race they're hating.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

I'm sure sick of some of the people claiming to not be racist, then. Because it seems when I always say it's racist and stupid, I get called a stupid racist weeaboo. It makes me want to be a stupid racist weeaboo.

I don't know what I am supposed to do as a human being, but I want a world where Easterners and Westerners walk hand in hand, no matter what it takes. And when I look up these White Nationalist folks, I see the exact opposite. I see Jared Taylor saying that Europeans and North Asians are both awesome. And antifa groups yelling at people for using Runic and listening to Nature and Organisation, you know, who wrote "Tears for an Eastern Girl", and H.E.R.R., who wrote "Hagia Sophia", and "A Challenge of Honour", who wrote, "seppuku". And Tony Wakeford for no good reason, either. I happen to like both those songs about old Europe and old Asia. When I hear those old songs about old Asia, and I feel longing, I'm not doing it because I'm exotifying and othering Asian people, I do the same thing when I hear traditional European music. Listening to 12 Girls Band and Storm of Capricorn is pretty much the same to me. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't see it that way. That is, other than creeps and weirdos like me.

It doesn't matter what I say is racist, in the end. The term is now empty. Nobody would listen to me if I called something racist against Asia racist, all because they, on average, score well on tests, and make more money, just like Europeans do. I don't care what causes that statistic, I'm happy for overlaps between East and West and opportunity for overlap. If that's white supremacist, white supremacy is nothing to gawk at. Boyd Rice isn't a racist creep to gawk at, but all that matters is that people seem to see him as a white supremacist. It wouldn't matter if he dated a Korean lady tomorrow, the world would always see him as a dirty, evil trash that he doesn't deserve. And he is right for wanting to look like the villain. Because the people who view him as one are worthless and braindead.

And I could've been fooled about this "real racism" stuff. Something only seems to get classes as real racism when it's talked about professionally, alluded to, so forth. Or when it's attached to stereotypically poor people like those of African descent. People don't take it seriously when you talk about racism to other groups like the racism towards the Irish or Finnish or Saami or Russians or Easterners. And a good portion of people talking for a lack of racism against Asian people, seem to be poisoning the well by attacking Westerners and acting like Kenneth Eng. I have little desire to stand up for such people when they seem to do little more than demonize Westerners. Mimicking the black people who wrote racist materials such as "black bourgeois".

I feel pretty racist. I like the fact that Collete from Tales of Symphonia is blonde haired and blue eyed. I think it really ridiculous adds to how cute and angelic she seems. And I don't mind the fact there isn't a "coloured" person to be seen in Tales of Symphonia, or Lord of the Rings. I don't even see what's so bad about a moderate amount of this "Asian fetishism" stuff. I think Björk is one of the prettiest, most interesting European women I've seen. That probably means I have a little bit of an Asian fetish. It's hardly even worth trying to not be racist, in a world where everything is racist.

edited 16th May '11 8:22:43 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

No, Ukon, you are not othering Asian people, you are othering "Southern people", as you term them. Which is to say, probably the majority of the global population, or near to it.

In modern America, due to various socioeconomic conditions, African Americans have for some time been disadvantaged. Their situation has clearly improved considerably since the 1960s, but that is the reason that anti-racist groups tend to focus on them.

It seems to me that you are failing to differentiate between arguments and the people who make them. You are hearing racist views spouted by people who identify as anti-racist, and you are consequently dismissing everything else they have to say as wrong.

Racism is bad whether it's against the Irish, the Japanese, Mexicans or African-Americans. How is this a difficult concept?

Edit: Fuck. Not everything is racist. Are you just going to ignore everything that doesn't affirm your existing prejudices?

edited 16th May '11 8:24:03 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Sigh.

Well, I do like northern cultures more. And wanting to see it overlap and get along has given me some biases probably at least bordering on bigotry.

And here I thought I considered what other people thought too much. And here I'm being told I have a super-filter on. I don't know what to think. I kind of feel like a jerk, but then again, I kind of did that on purpose with my bitterment about this East and West thing. I suppose I wouldn't feel this way if I didn't feel I needed to sacrifice someone in order to attain that harmony I desire.

Since the path to letting go of my bigotry is probably to stop feeling, or rather, knowing, for certain, that what I want is not under threat, how, again, do I achieve. You said it takes work, what kind of work? That is, if you still want to tell me even after coming off as a total and complete d-bag repeatedly.

This is kind of funny though, now that I think about it, who knew a Libertarian Lefitst, Bisexual, Gender hating, Asian loving fool such as me could turn into, be such a racist, prejudiced bigot.:D .... :/ Sigh. I'm pretty much over-the-top fail at everything.

edited 16th May '11 8:43:45 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

OK, well, that right there is your biggest problem. Stop seeing yourself as somebody who fails at everything. You can be a racist leftist libertarian feminist. People will probably think you're a hypocrite for it, you'll be disliked, but if that's your actual opinion, it's not a failure.

Seriously, the most important, and most difficult, part of not caring is to start accepting yourself for who you are. That does not mean you can't self-analyse, modify your views or strive for self-improvement, but it does mean dropping this self-deprecation thing. You care what other people think because you don't have a lot of faith in yourself, which means that other people's criticism is all that you have to identify by. This is obviously not conducive to not caring what other people think.

Also important is to avoid seeing life as a popularity contest. It's not about scoring points over other people or winning their favour, it's about being the best person you can be. Some people will dislike you for that, but plenty will like you for it. You can't please everyone; it's important to be aware of this.

If you have self-doubts, instead of just taking every hurtful insult that gets thrown your way and wallowing in them, examine them. What is it about yourself that is making you unhappy or uncertain? How can you fix it? This is something for you to do, not the haters. They have ultimately no say in the matter.

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Life isn't a popularity contest?

It sure feels like a form of it, sometimes. I mean, the world is kinda, one big cultural tug-of-war. In which one person may not seem like much, but human opinion is like a vote that can send ripples throughout the world.

Now that I think of it, my love for androgyny and gender bending might be a form of sexism. I mean, it gets to the point I get kind of irritated by machismo.

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

Well, you can look at life as a popularity contest if you want. How's that working out for you?

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Well, it doesn't matter how I look at it. If it's true, it's true.

I am unhappy about myself that I have been diagnosed with mental disorders. And I think this makes people who are interested in other cultures look bad. Because people have told me, without knowing I have ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder, that people who are interested in other cultures. I have never respected myself for having been diagnosed with mental disorders, it makes me feel as if my very personality is inferior and subhuman. It makes me want to paste over it and deny and pretend it never happened. And makes me feel even more unworthy to like other cultures than I do already.

I hate that I seem to also like things that everyone else hates. The sport I like, skateboarding, is considered for kids, I like anime and cute girly things, and that's considered for kids, I like video games, and that's considered for kids.

I hate about myself that I continually have painful memories that won't seem to go away. These omnipresent intrusive thoughts that at best, paint my thoughts and activies in a dark light. I want them to go away.

I hate about myself, that I am interested in cultures and overlaps that the world doesn't. I seem to be just smack in the middle of something that is considered either racist and white supremacist or self hating weeaboo or exotifying and fetishizing, or a race traitor, or somehow all of the above.

I don't like about myself my interest in Japan or other Asian cultures, because not only would nobody in Japan ever accept me, and only pretend to, just like every thousand people who has told me . I feel like not only would I be an annoying burden to any Asian, but because of my interests, I am a burden to Westerners.

I hate about myself that I have behaved in a way wasting my time and being pathetic, which my homestay family cared for me and showed me love, even though I'm a foreigner, and I've squandered it. Instead of doing something to make them proud, I've lived pathetically. It makes me feel unworthy of their love.

I don't like about me that I feel that no matter what I do, people will hate me, most people will hate me, for my interest in any Asian culture. And there's little I can do to change it, and I can't seem to stop liking these things, either. The only thing I can do is make a ripple and support things in my favor, and not support the spread of opinions that don't work in that favor.

I hate about myself that I like cultures that I feel that a lot of people treat as mutually exclusive and are offended by the overlap.

I hate about myself that I'm leaking out part of the influence for liking Uralic cultures, which will only make people hate me further.

I dislike about myself that I have a personality that I cannot escape, that leads me to being alone in the world, aside from a short, few things, which I must fight for tooth and nail. Or everything, everything I find to be beautiful will be swallowed up, crushed, and spit upon. My life itself is an agenda, and I myself must never falter, or I will be crushed under the weight of the world and everything I find to be beautiful, will be on the path to being lost, even if it takes place after I die. I must become what I want and every aspect of it, and tip the scales further in my direction.

The only answer I can see to these dislikes, is that I must spread this Eurasian, possibly even Turanist opinion. Spread my love of the north and build communities and opinion that centres around it. Promote a world that is safer and more accepting of those who like Japanese or other Northern Asian cultures. Promote overlap between Eastern and Western cultures, and give them no quarter that work against. Work towards a well standing position in society and economic well being, and go see my homestay family again. Promote different cultural norms as I can to my liking. Promote destruction of gender norms with no quarter. Promote a world without racism between East and West, a world without heteronormativity, without gender roles, a world which celebrates and shares cultures, by any means necessary. So that I can feel at love and unity and love with the world.

There is nothing I can do to love Asian cultures, love Androgyny, love Eurasian unity, and loving Homosexual desires and Sexual Nonconformity, unless I do at least as much as send a ripple into the world. There are things to my advantage, there are things like mukokuseki and ural-altaic/eurasiatic language theory, and I should use them, and promote them. And if I don't use any of these things, I am weaponless. And my desires will be even more difficult to come to pass. And the world will continue on, me being treated as a silly and delusional race traitor who doesn't realize how impossibly different and unreconcilable East and West are, until I die. And if I ever have children of partially Asian descent, they will live in a world where they are considered mixed race, instead of the wonderful beings they are. I do not want a world, where if I have a child with a person from Asia, it is considered of mixed race. In a world, where both of our heritages, are not esteemed.

Lately, it seems like since I have fallen apart, I am doing more to harm my desires and cause than help them. Like these topics, where I have finally fallen. I am listening to Storm of Capricorn, and it is... becoming hollow. Because I cannot help but feel, but suspect indeed, is indeed letting the contrast creep in. Being made fragile and reduced to something universal that no proud white person would ever accept. These very feelings of fear and inadequacy, probably led me to liking Neofolk, Martial Industrial, Classical, and other "suspicious" seeming artist even more than I normally would. Now, that feeling of empowerment is starting to fade away. I dislike about myself that I have allowed it to slip away, and I want it back. And a way that I can do that, is to feel the thundering, suspicious power of Europe course across my mind, Europe the enemy, Europe the demonize, Europe, the fist of a great and powerful demon. One that makes me look like a racist, one that makes me look like I love and want to protect European culture, one that makes my interest in Asian culture look trivial instead of pathetic.

edited 16th May '11 9:58:13 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

Ukon, dawg, you are perceiving something that's not really there. The world isn't made up of racists that just can't wait to jeer at a half-white half-Japanese baby.

Or whatever you were talking about. You lose me sometimes, man.

Basically, paranoia is bad, and you need to, as I said, step outside your frame of mind right now and really think for five minutes.

Also, yes, you are definitely exotifying Japan. Stop denying that.

edited 16th May '11 9:57:32 PM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.

Don't tell me to "think". This is nothing more than your illogical way to insult my intelligence. I really think, and now I think you're not thinking. You sit down and think for 5 minuts, and then don't post something so ridiculous.

Do you really expect me to believe that... When you say something like this? By that logic, I'm also exotifying myself. By that logic, I'm exotifying Norway and Finland and Sweden and Ireland and Great Britain.

I dare you to give a reasonable explanation for this bullshit. Exotification is otherment. I'm not treating European people any different from Japanese people, in this case. Unless you're saying that I'm exotifying and fetishizing Finnish people, which is possibly hilarious, considering I'm white. And yeah, I'm a bit perturbed, I know full well what exotification means and it's moral weight to others. Exotification is one of the major problems people have with Westerners liking things from the East. And it comes from contrast. How can I be exotifying Easterners when the very opposite of my objectify is to minimalize contrast between me and them as much as possible?

edited 16th May '11 10:09:27 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

Well, it's not true, not literally. Life is not a popularity contest, life is life. The statement "life is a popularity contest" can only be a subjective outlook on the world, and it doesn't look to me like a very sensible or productive one.

That question was intended as rhetorical, so I wasn't expecting such a long reply. A substantial amount of the above boils down to "I don't want people to dislike me for X, and I am X", which is a self-destructive way of thinking because nobody, but nobody, is universally popular. No matter what I do, there are going to be people who will hate me, just because I am the kind of person they hate. I am OK with this; there is no reason why I should abandon my own tastes or principles to please somebody like that.

Yes, there will likely be Japanese people and Western people who won't accept you because you're a Westerner interested in Asian cultures. These people are racist. There will likely be others who do accept you.

As for "race traitor", it's a stupid phrase and something that only a racist would care about. Why should you worry about what such people think? If not everyone will like you, it's pointless to try to please those people who will hate you for such arbitrary reasons as the ethnicity you were born with.

As to the third from last paragraph, which I won't deny bothers me and I don't think it's a good idea: it's not the world that you'd be at unity and love with - it's only part of the world. Worth bearing in mind, I think.

I'm not going to say that that's what you're doing (it is quite plausible to me that you really aren't exotifying and fetishising the Japanese), but it is in no way impossible and I fail to see why it would be hilarious. In fact, the suggestion that it is has some racist implications in itself.

There are plenty of white Westerners today who exoticise and fetishise Victorian Britons, 20th century white gangsters or 19th century cowboys. There are plenty of white Americans who exoticise and fetishise Europeans, and vice versa; there are plenty of white Britons who exoticise and fetishise the royal family. It's entirely possible. Othering is not purely caused by visual differences in race.

edited 16th May '11 10:14:10 PM by BobbyG

Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The Staff

Well, "life" may not be a popularity contest, but society is kind of like a tug-of-war. In which fame and honor and popularity and money go to some, instead of others. If I spend one hour listening to a white artist, that is an hour I am not listening to a black artist. And if all of the most popular artists on last.fm were white, somebody would complain.

And I'm apparently talking way too much about something rhetorical. Sigh.

Because, they feel as if a backbone of my race. They're the ones it seems like, that want to revive Runic, create Neofolk, revive dying Celtic languages, revere high culture. Those antifa groups, as much as I feel I have a lot in common with them politically, seems to almost be suspicious of some of the most beautiful parts of Western culture. Our great parts of culture are things we should both be proud of and share like they belong to each other. And it seems a lot of these people, are racistly fixated upon being European. There are exceptions obviously, but they are many, and it is intimidating. They are the ones who choose to act proud and represent the classiest, most beautiful aspects of the culture.

I personally want the people who are European, and LOVE the European heritage, to also happen to like and be happy with sharing it(not imperializing, and shoving it down other people throats, but be happy other other people are proud to use it. Like Agnes Chan's Rococo home. That's a good thing, from a perspective a person of European descent, I'm proud that many Asians such as her think highly of and partake in parts of our culture such as this).

I'm glad you feel that way. I'm sure a lot of the people who think exotifying Asians is wrong would disagree. Some people seem to like to dress this up as a particular assault on Asians by Westerners, something that doesn't even seem to include Asian attraction to Westerners or black attraction to whites for many people. So I would be sadly surprised to be blamed of exotifying Finnish people in the same was "weeaboos" supposedly exotify Japanese people. It would comfort me a bit to feel that my attraction to Finland and Japan isn't any different. Unless that were followed it up with something like "Jesus Christ you are one pathetic weeaboo. Not only do you have to fetishized your stupid "kawaii nippon" that hates you stupid Japan loving Gaijin fucks. You have to bring EUROPE into the matter. How fucking pathetic are you? You think Finland is Asian-y enough for you to fetishize as well."

But generally, thought of REALLY liking a European country, and REALLY liking an Asian country as being the same, is comforting to me. Because look mah, no Eastern and Western divide!

THEN WHAT THE HECK IS SO WRONG WITH EXOTIFICATION? I've read thousands of blogs and groups dedicated to how evil it is. I happend to romanticize, heavily, all norther cultures. Canada a little less so because they mostly speak English and that is a bit on the boring side. But I don't think that romanticizing culture is the same as exotifying. Exotifying, I'm pretty sure means othering. While I'm romanticizing aspects of North Asian culture, I'm trying my best to do the opposite of othering it, and suffering the consequences. It shouldn't be hilarious, it really shouldn't. But I think some, many people would sadly find the claim of a Western person exotifying Westerners about as silly as a Russian Nazi(of which there are many), and trivalizing of Asian fetishism.

Really, the only problem I see with most people's talk about "exotification", is in the very word, othering. Why contrast yourself from something you like? And there's also the stereotyping. I hate it when people stereotype Asian women as submssive or gold diggers or the like.

Just what the heck is exotification, anyway? And why is it bad? Are you one of the many who think it is bad? Why do you think so many people think it is bad? And wouldn't a better word for some cases of usage, be romanticism. There's nothing wrong with going "wow, how wonderfully viking! How romantic!"

I've frequently, sadly, been told that no Japanese will ever accept a foreigner, and it's only delusional weeaboo racists who think Japan is a perfect paradise who think otherwise. And by that, it also clearly means that my homestay family would never truly love me, because they are Japanese, and I am a Westerner.

Eventually, I think some of that sank into my brain. I kept telling myself and telling myself otherwise. And then telling others that when they told me, but they so universally thought I was some delusional weeaboo idiot, I started to break down, and learned that at the very least, my desire to go to Japan had gotten me hated by Westerners, even by those obsessed with Jpop and the like.

edited 16th May '11 10:38:07 PM by Ukonkivi

Genkidama for Japan, even if you don't have money, you can help![1]

I'm not insulting your intelligence. There is a process I forget the name of. It involves forcing yourself to abandon any predisposition you may have for a small amount of time, hence, "step out of your mental state."

Unless you can perceive what's going on in your mind, you'll never fix the problem.

Also, rereading your posts, yes, you are very definitely fetishizing things. In fact, you admitted to it in a roundabout way in the beginning of the thread.

Not only that, you're buying into bullshit and then calling me out on decidedly non-bullshit statements. Maybe you have the definition of the word bullshit backwards?

edited 16th May '11 11:04:56 PM by Diamonnes

My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.