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    Original OP 
(I saw Allan mention the lack of one so I thought I'd make one.)

Recent political stuff:

  • The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
  • Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
  • The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.

A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.

Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM

CDRW Since: May, 2016
#24976: Aug 27th 2016 at 12:16:06 PM

I'm glad to hear they did good. Extra History is one of my favorite programs. It's good to have independent confirmation that they actually are accurate.

Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24977: Aug 27th 2016 at 1:22:16 PM

[up]That's a nice random first post for the thousandth page. Suits the thread, I feel. tongue

Labour AM warns of threat to devolution in Brexit vote wake

At the moment, support for increased devolution and even support for full independence has been rising in Wales since Brexit, but nobody fully understands why and for how long this will continue.

UKIP, however, is claiming that the Brexit vote in Wales is a sign of growing support for an end to devolution and a return to full Westminster control (just under new parties instead of traditional one).

On a side note: the man gets a research ship and a new fossil species named after him in the same year.

Kitten-sized extinct 'lion' named after David Attenborough

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 2nd 2022 at 2:20:33 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
TommyR01D Since: Feb, 2015
#24978: Aug 27th 2016 at 2:11:16 PM

UKIP are in a peculiar situation wanting to abolish the place where they have significant representation and transfer its powers to the place where they don't. Still, I suppose it's no stranger than the Liberal Democrat desire to remove the House of Lords.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24980: Aug 27th 2016 at 3:44:11 PM

Also a Daily Mirror trigger, but after reading that article, I spotted this one:

John Prescott: In the battle of Jeremy Corbyn v Richard Branson - I'm with the passengers

Jeremy Corbyn v Richard Branson – the Battle of the Beards. And as someone who uses the East Coast line every week, I’m with the passengers.

Virgin East Coast Trains, which Corbyn highlighted in his video, is 90 per cent owned by Stagecoach, run by SNP donor Brian Souter.

Virgin Trains owns only 10 per cent. And Stagecoach owns half of that too. But this dispute is 100 per cent about Branson. It’s all about protecting his “brand” at any cost.

When I was Labour ’s shadow transport minister before Major privatised the railways, Branson told me he wanted to own both the East Coast and the West Coast services.

His dream was to own a rail “loop” around the country. I was dead against it.

As Transport Secretary I faced a mountain of problems to sort out the privatisation mess. My priority was improving the rail lines.

Sadly my hands were tied on taking the franchises back into public ownership.

They had years to run and would have cost billions in compensation to people like Branson to take them back.

Blair and Brown felt there were more pressing priorities – getting people back to work and investing in our creaking NHS and schools after years of Tory misrule.

But in 2009, Labour had to take the East Coast route back into public hands.

The previous private franchise owners National Express and GNER couldn’t make it profitable.

So we created East Coast Trains. This meant we could compare a London-to-Scotland train service in public hands with Branson’s.

Guess which was better?

From 2009 until 2014, a state-run East Coast Trains delivered £1billion back to the taxpayer. Which was all reinvested in making the service better.

Over the same period, Virgin West Coast could only manage a third of that profit – and most of that sum went to its shareholders.

In fact, they lost the franchise to First Trains, only to get it back after a legal challenge.

East Coast Trains provided a better service, a better return, used less subsidy and made the taxpayer money.

But the Tories forced the sell-off of the East Coast Route to Virgin and Stagecoach just before the last General Election for £3billion. Branson finally got his loop.

But they paid twice as much as the previous private owners paid – and they couldn’t make it work. How will Virgin do it?

Well, in the past the state subsidised his profits. A study by academics at the University of Manchester found the total subsidy we gave Virgin West Coast between 1997 and 2012 was £2.79billion.

Government then spent £9bn upgrading the West Coast Track and heavily subsidised his new Pendolino trains.

And Network Rail, which controls the lines, reduced the yearly track access charges train companies have to pay from £3bn to £1.5bn. Another state subsidy.

So between 1997 and 2012, Virgin West Coast Trains were able to make £518m profit – 96 per cent of which was given straight to shareholders.

But Branson’s finding Virgin East Coast a bit more of a problem as the Tories are reducing the subsidies – and it’s the staff and passengers who’ll pay the price.

It pulled many of its cheapest advanced fares from popular routes, doubling some fares – and passengers aren’t even guaranteed a seat.

According to the train union the RMT, dozens of staff face the sack as Virgin East Coast tries to find cuts. Free wifi on all trains promised in Branson’s bid has failed to appear.

And on my Virgin East Coast Train, once proudly known as the Hull Executive, the service has rapidly deteriorated. Forget wifi, the train I get doesn’t even have plug sockets.

And five months before we become the UK City of Culture attracting tourists from around the world, the engine is branded East Midlands Trains.

I wrote to Branson on three occasions but received no reply. But he’s more than happy to potentially breach data protection laws (the ICO is “making inquiries”) and publish CCTV footage of a man who wants to take his shoddy train service back into public hands.

They may be Virgin Trains. But the passengers are getting screwed day after day.

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
singularityshot Since: Dec, 2012
#24981: Aug 27th 2016 at 3:49:24 PM

Love him or loathe him Branson has made himself the most acceptable face of capitalism there is. It'a going to take a lot more than a kuffule over train seats for the public to turn against him.

Basically give it a few years until Virgin Health have run down all the health contracts they have won from the NHS into the ground.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#24982: Aug 27th 2016 at 4:14:59 PM

They may be Virgin Trains. But the passengers are getting screwed day after day.

I knew I liked Presscott for a reason.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24983: Aug 27th 2016 at 5:51:38 PM

[up][up]There are a number of people revising their opinions of Branson after this incident. However, that doesn't really tell us how many in the grand scheme of things that may be. But, yeah, his NHS contracts are probably what will make or break his reputation with people.

edited 27th Aug '16 5:52:30 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#24984: Aug 27th 2016 at 6:25:42 PM

My dad's always maintained that Branson is a charming prat who is smart, but not as intelligent as he thinks he is. He worked with him a time or two. :/

He rates Ridley Scott as being much less head-up-his-arse, quick and rather more fun to share a pint with. Which he finds amusing: the guy who officially peddles fantasies is less gullible than the "businessman". tongue

edited 27th Aug '16 6:31:02 PM by Euodiachloris

Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#24985: Aug 28th 2016 at 5:02:32 AM

A lot of people are going to keep loving Virgin just for being such a big thorn in Serco's side.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#24986: Aug 28th 2016 at 10:21:23 AM

#traingate: Virgin broke own rules by releasing Corbyn CCTV, document shows

The decision by Virgin Trains to release CCTV images of Jeremy Corbyn on one of its services after he complained on video about the journey being “completely ram-packed” was in breach of the company’s own policies, the Guardian can reveal.

The company handed images, which appeared to show the Labour leader walking past empty seats before sitting on the train’s floor, to the media earlier this week in a bid to embarrass Corbyn after he filmed the video.

A leaked internal document warns that CCTV images will only be made available to the media in two situations: where it is “necessary to seek assistance from the public in connection with a criminal investigation” or where it might improve the “safety of the railway or prevent railway accidents of incidents”.

The stories you need to read, in one handy email Read more The Virgin policy, written by the company’s emergency planning, fire and security manager, Jim Rawcliffe, adds: “Any such decision to release footage for these purposes will be approved by the head of safety and environment and, where appropriate, following consultation with the relevant police authority.”

The revelation raises questions about why Virgin and its chief executive and founder, Sir Richard Branson, released CCTV images to make a political point about the Labour leader.

The company published pictures of Corbyn walking past seats that appeared available in order to hit back after he was filmed sitting on the floor saying that his experience was a good argument in favour of public ownership.

The party leader’s claim was derided, with accusations that he had lied about how busy the train really was.

However, leaked emails reveal that the managing director of Virgin Trains East Coast told staff that the controversy had highlighted how crowded services can be, and that finding seats could make customers anxious and stressed.

David Horne also admitted having to stand by a customer toilet for a journey of almost 200 miles, from Newark to London. He said that was during Virgin’s “hot seat week”, when directors and managers are banned from travelling in first class in order to “take a hard look at our standard class offer”.

On Friday, he wrote: “Putting politics aside, this incident demonstrates just how busy many of our services are, those in the middle of the day as well as at peak times.”

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#24987: Aug 28th 2016 at 11:17:02 AM

In other Rail News — Stadler and Bombardier to supply trains for Abellio East Anglia franchise

UK: The Department for Transport named Abellio as preferred bidder for the new East Anglia franchise on August 10. The franchise is due to start on October 16 2016 and run until October 2025, replacing the current Greater Anglia franchise which is also held by Abellio.

A £1·4bn investment programme under the new franchise is to include:

  • Complete replacement of the current fleet, with the delivery of 1 043 new vehicles between January 2019 and September 2020. Bombardier is to be awarded a £900m contract financed by leasing company Angel Trains for the supply of 665 Aventra electric multiple-unit cars from its Derby plant. Stadler is to enter the UK mainline passenger rolling stock market for the first time with an planned order for 383 Flirt electro-diesel and electric multiple-unit cars.
  • Refurbishment of 'many' existing vehicles ahead of the arrival of the new fleet.
  • 'Tough new performance targets', with Public Performance Measure scores to be increased from 89·7% to 92·9% 'through a more robust timetable, investment in infrastructure, people and process and through an alliance with Network Rail'.
  • At least two trains per weekday each way between London and Norwich with a journey time of 90 min, and two between London and Ipswich in 60 min.
  • Free wi-fi on trains and at stations.
  • Investment to improve the journey experience, including nearly £60m for stations, with major schemes at Broxbourne, Cambridge, Cheshunt, Harlow and Southend Victoria, digital information screens at all 131 stations, improved ticket offices and more ticket vending machines, nearly 1 800 additional car parking spaces and 4 000 additional cycle parking spaces.
  • New ticketing initiatives from October 2017, including offers for part-time workers and those who do not travel every day.
  • Automatic 'delay repay' for season and advance purchase tickets.
  • £120m of investment in depots, including a new maintenance facility at Manningtree.
  • Taking on 20 trainees per year, with a minimum of 30 apprenticeships by 2019.

DfT said the franchisee would make premium payments worth around £3·7bn over the nine-year period.

The franchise is expected to carry more than 97 million passenger-journeys/year. The number of seats on services arriving at London Liverpool Street station in the morning peak is to be increased by 55% to 91 000, and across the franchise there will be 1 144 additional weekday services, an increase of 13%.

Dominic Booth, Managing Director of the Abellio UK subsidiary of the Dutch national passenger operator NS, said the company was 'pleased to become preferred bidder to deliver a transformation in rail services across the region'. This would 'enable us to build on the successes of the two short East Anglian franchises we have run since 2012, and we commend the DfT in running a transparent and rigorous procurement process.'

He said the new franchise would 'greatly improve our customers' experience with faster and more reliable journeys on new trains with higher frequencies and reduced journey times, to support the socio-economic well-being of East Anglia, one of the country's most successful and fastest growing areas.'

Bombardier Transportation's UK Commercial Director, Des McKeon, said the rolling stock order was 'a great endorsement of Bombardier's next-generation Aventra train family, which offers maximum flexibility, to serve many different market requirements from metro to inter-city.' Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling said Abellio's decision to order rolling stock from Bombardier would 'ensure our train building industry in Derby remains strong'.

Just a reminder — Abellio is State-owned by the Dutch Government, as Deutsche Bahn (who also own Arriva, Chiltern Trains and substantial Rail Freight operations) is by the German Government. Not quite the form of State Ownership some want, though... smile

edited 28th Aug '16 11:21:35 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#24988: Aug 28th 2016 at 2:33:37 PM

Short version then.

Corbyn libelled Virgin

The head of Virgin posted proof that Corbyn lied

Corbyn complained that the head of Virgin had promised not to post that and called for him to be stripped of his knighthood.

I'm seeing Evil Versus Evil here but I don't think a party leader wants to identify as evil.

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#24989: Aug 28th 2016 at 2:37:38 PM

Pretty sure that what Corbyn said can be classed as fair comment.

In addition Virgin management have admitted that Branson breached their implementation of the Data Protection Act in order to release the footage.

Also the comments about the knighthood came from John Mc Donnell, not Corbyn.

edited 28th Aug '16 2:38:08 PM by Deadbeatloser22

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#24990: Aug 28th 2016 at 2:55:57 PM

[up][up] Except ther's no definitive proof that Corbyn lied, what we're seeing is that he walked past reserved seats, walked past individual unreserved seats (that he says had bags on them, also he was trying to sit with his wife or something?) and later sat in a seat (he says after other people upgraded to first class and thus seats opened up).

It's very unclear what exactly happened, however other passengers have testified that they were also stuck on the floor and that Corbyn joined them.

As for the knighthood comment, I think that it was rather foolish, we can't just strip knighthoods from everyone that's a self important asshole, we'd have nobody left if we did that!

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#24991: Aug 28th 2016 at 2:57:47 PM

The argument isn't so much "self important asshole" as "he's deliberately trying to undermine the democratic process".

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#24992: Aug 28th 2016 at 3:02:50 PM

So are the press at large, we can't take all the journalistic knighthoods away.

He's allowed to have an opinion on Corbyn and he's allowed to argue it.

A better argument would be that he's a tax exile who doesn't pay any UK taxes, but even then it's shaky ground to say that all tax avoiders should loose their knighthoods.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24993: Aug 28th 2016 at 3:17:36 PM

Short version then.

Corbyn libelled Virgin

The head of Virgin posted proof that Corbyn lied

Corbyn complained that the head of Virgin had promised not to post that and called for him to be stripped of his knighthood.

No, the short version is this:

Corbyn decides to post a video of his train journey experience and make a political point about nationalising the railways as he does so.

The head of Virgin posts a video claiming Corbyn has lied.

The media question other people who were travelling on the train at the same time as Corbyn and find them all corroborating Corbyn's story.

The full Virgin video goes viral showing that the original Virgin video clip appears to be cherry-picked and that the full version appears to corroborate Corbyn's original video.

Theresa May's government slips out an announcement that the Human Rights Act will definitely be scrapped, which the media mostly ignores in favour of traingate.

The ICO* begins a formal investigation of the Virgin video.

John MacDonnell complains that both Branson and Green need to have their knighthoods stripped.

John Prescott writes an article about his experience with nationalisation, privatisation and Virgin trains.

Documents are leaked from Virgin indicating that the release of the Virgin video has contravened Virgin's own internal media rules.

* ICO = Information Commissioner's Office, the organisation responsible for investigating whether the Data Protection Act is being upheld or breached (Facebook keeps them busy).

A better argument would be that he's a tax exile who doesn't pay any UK taxes, but even then it's shaky ground to say that all tax avoiders should loose their knighthoods.

That's part of John MacDonnell's argument. He's not talking about Branson exclusively, he's using this situation to reiterate his position on reforming the entire Honours system, which is why Green and a few others were mentioned at the same time.

Tax avoidance is a shaky issue because it's legal, unlike tax evasion, which is illegal. Tax avoidance is what an ISA does, after all, and it's my understanding that Branson engages in tax avoidance, not evasion. It looks like MacDonnell wants to crack down on both. He's not the first MP to want to do that. Cameron discussed doing that a while back.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 2nd 2022 at 2:29:07 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#24994: Aug 28th 2016 at 3:50:39 PM

Guess that's the new strategy we need. When the media starts making farmyard noises about the opposition's latest crimes against Middle Class Middle England, look out for whatever bombshell the Government is trying to slip under the radar?

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24995: Aug 28th 2016 at 4:17:13 PM

That's definitely a thing. I don't think Britain is unique in that, however.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jun 2nd 2022 at 2:29:55 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24996: Aug 30th 2016 at 5:15:50 PM

#JeSuisMomentumTrumpton has been trending. Does anyone know more? It's got something to do with Labour Party, deselection and a parody Twitter account being shut down. That's all I know.

UK Polling Report (Published on the 30th August, so the 'tomorrow' reference is to the 31st August)

You Gov/Times poll of Labour leadership race

Tomorrow’s Times has a new You Gov poll of the Labour leadership electorate (party members from before the cut-off date, trade union affiliates and £25 registered supporters) showing Jeremy Corbyn with a robust lead over Owen Smith. Topline voting intentions excluding don’t knows are Corbyn 62%, Smith 38%. 8% of voters say don’t know.

Jeremy Corbyn leads convincingly in all three parts of the electorate: among party members he is ahead by 57% to 43%, among trade union affiliates he is ahead 62% to 38%, among registered supporters he is ahead by a daunting 74% to 26%. If the numbers are broken down by length of membership Owen Smith actually leads among those who were members before the last general election, but they are swamped by the influx of newer members who overwhelmingly back Jeremy Corbyn.

The poll was conducted over the weekend, so after Labour members will have started to vote. The actual contest still has three weeks to go, but with people already voting and that sort of lead to make up Owen Smith’s chances do not look good.

Looking to the future, 39% of the selectorate (and 35% of full party members) think it is likely the party will split after the election. 45% of party members who support Owen Smith say that if some M Ps opposed to Corbyn were to leave and form a new party they would follow them (29% of Smith supporters say they are likely to leave the party if Corbyn wins anyway… though I’m always a little wary of questions like that, it’s easier to threaten to leave than to actually do it)

You Gov also asked about mandatory re-selection. Party members are divided right down the middle – 46% of full members think M Ps should normally have the right to stand again without a full selection, 45% of members think that M Ps should face a full reselection before every election. The split is very much along the Smith-Corbyn divide – 69% of Corbyn supporters are in favour of reselections, 77% of Smith supporters are opposed.

edited 30th Aug '16 5:18:24 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wyldchyld (Old as dirt)
#24997: Aug 30th 2016 at 5:30:09 PM

Excuse the double-post:

This news crept out quietly, I can't find many sources covering it (Telegraph, published on the 12th August):

Voters will be told to bring a passport or driver's licence to the polls in a bid to tackle electoral fraud

Voters will be required to present a passport, drivers licence or utility bill when they go to the polls in a bid to tackle electoral fraud, The Telegraph understands.

Ministers are likely to introduce a pilot of the scheme amid concerns that people are impersonating genuine voters.

It comes after a report commissioned by Sir Eric Pickles, the former Conservative Cabinet minister, today warns that the authorities are in a “state of denial” and are “turning a blind eye” to election fraud.

Sir Eric, who says that there were 665 alleged cases of electoral fraud last year, said in an article in the Telegraph that voters should “have to produce personal identification before voting at polling stations”.

The Canary covered it, too (article from the 15th August):

The Tory plan to stop 4 million people voting in the next general election

Pickles’ plans are based on assumptions which appear contrary to impartial evidence. But he and the Tories appear keen to push the reforms through, regardless. What Pickles doesn’t mention is the number of people that will be affected by the rule changes.

Research conducted by The Canary using data accumulated (csv) for the GOV.UK website, shows the results are shocking. The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiled evidence of how many people have the correct ID to access online government services. 22 ID options were used in their modelling. They included either a passport, driving licence, bank account or utility bill. Note this compared to Pickles’ proposed three forms of ID needed to vote. As of March 2016, just over 86% of people aged 16 or over had the correct ID. If you take out the 2 million 16-18-year-olds, this means that, on average, around 4.3 million people would not have the right ID to vote.

Also, it will impact women and the poor the most. Example percentages of people with the correct ID include:

  • Less than 1% of men, economically inactive in the urban South East, aged 25-44.
  • 13% of men, economically inactive in urban London, aged 25-44.
  • 16% of men, employed but not classified in urban Yorkshire, aged 25-44.
  • 20% of women, employed in routine or manual jobs in the rural East Midlands, aged 45-54.
  • 25% of women, economically inactive in the urban North East, aged 75 and over.
  • 26% of men, economically inactive in rural Scotland, aged 55-64.
  • 26% of women, employed in routine or manual jobs in the urban South East, aged 45-54.

Contrast this with the statistics for those in management roles. Nearly 100% of people in these jobs have the correct ID. And where the percentage does drop, it’s among women.

edited 30th Aug '16 5:30:34 PM by Wyldchyld

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#24998: Aug 30th 2016 at 5:41:32 PM

Here's the thing, the Electoral Commission actually stated that we need to look into introducing voter ID to prevent issues, however they stated that obviously such an ID would have to be provided free by the state and rolled out over a period of time so that everyone could get one.

As for electoral fraud, the vast majority of actual ballot fraud is simply postal vote rigging, that is an issue (one person in the house collects all the postal votes and fills them all out), I don't know of a sinkage case of in person voter fraud in the UK.

Still it's no suprise, Tories wanna bring back the Poll Tax.

edited 30th Aug '16 5:43:29 PM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#24999: Aug 30th 2016 at 9:41:29 PM

Conservatives around the world have lost the right to the benefit of the doubt when it comes to election fraud.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Khudzlin Since: Nov, 2013
#25000: Aug 31st 2016 at 12:37:05 AM

Voter ID is mandatory in France. It is indeed freely issued by the state (and since it doesn't include a photo, French voters are also required to bring photo ID).


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