Soul vs spirit

OK, firstly, I'm an atheist. On the way to the library, some guy came up to me and asked if I needed a miracle, since if so he could pray for me and God would help me. I told him that no, I was fine (I didn't mention that I have a disability I don't want cured). Then I started asking him various theological questions.

Anyway, one of his comments struck me as interesting. He said that there were three parts to a person: body, soul and spirit. The soul was our thoughts & feelings and such, and spirit was our life force.

I was just wondering if anyone else has heard of this distinction before. I always thought soul and spirit were synonyms. (This distinction could really be useful for a story I'm working on.)

edited 19th Apr '11 12:55:06 PM by Ettina

They can be synonyms or they can be distinct concepts, ranging from identity, to morality, to basic forces of life.

There's no one single answer to your question, but if you want to look up the concept of the holy trinity you can.

I think normally that distinction is between the mind and soul, but the definitions used seem similar. Just Personal Dictionary?

Did you ask what denomination he belonged to?

No, I didn't. I probably should have.

It sounds familiar, though I can't remember where I've heard such a distinction before.

I think this is a concept in christian theology. I couldn't say where I read it, though.

You might find this interesting.

Don't believe this is so much of a christian origin idea as just a general philosophical idea. I've read some stuff about similar ideas before but there isn't really any decent sized group of people that I know of that hold this as a major idea or belief.

Well, whoever he is, whatever denomination he is, he has spent less time reading his Bible than he's spent being told what to believe by someone in his church.

In the scriptures - right there in Genesis - soul means a "body". God, according to the book, breathed life into Adam and Adam "became a living soul".

Elsewhere in the bible, the soul is described as being subject to death, torture, destruction etc - all of which referring to mundane harms to the body.

The idea that the soul was cognate with some sort of immortal "spirit" (that leaves your body at death) came later - at a group of councils held by Christianised Roman Pagans.

The whole "body, soul and spirit" thing sounds weird - like a corruption of something New Agey.

A lot of modern believers take the soul = spirit approach, but that's not supported by Scripture (at least not in the Old Testament which deals with the foundations of the creation of life).

Reminds me of the ancient Egyptian distinction between Ha, Ba and Ka (though they had a few other things as well.

Yeah, you've got the 'over-soul' (for want of a better term) which is the one that gets reincarnated or buggers off to the afterlife or whatever it wants to do; then you have the 'spirit' or 'wight' of your body as all material things have a spiritual component; then you have the personality/ego that is created by the interaction of the other two. In the Egyptian system you also have other spiritual elements that add to the soul or are aspects of the soul, including your name and your shadow-double.

Mongolian Tengerism similarly has a tri-partite soul, as do a few other religions, if I recall correctly.

Alchemical theory has the salt/mercury/spirit (body/intellect/soul) triad.

I never bothered to find out the christian way of doing things as the council of Nicaea rendered all christian theology highly suspect and pretty much useless for my purposes, but I'm sure the whole 'holy trinity' business is some kind of remnant of this idea.

edited 20th Apr '11 3:50:12 AM by InverurieJones

The new born Christian's model of body, soul and spirit:

body: fleshly wants and needs

soul: one's personality

spirit: the part which communicates with God

edited 20th Apr '11 1:51:08 PM by sveni

Um, what do you mean by "new born"? Is that a sect or what?

He is probably referring to "born again" Christians.

Yes, I was.

I like this model◊. It looks very thorough, and it's very colorful.

...been a while since I've necromanced a thread. ;P I am the Thread Reaper and I have no soul.

But the spirit. ;)

edited 24th Jan '12 8:11:23 PM by Keybreak

Fullmetal Alchemist?

[up] ohh pretty.

In mormon theology, the soul is the combination of the body and the spirit.

More often the division is given as body, mind, and soul or spirit. Personally, I've always thought it was a lot sillier than simple dualism.

If I am not mistaken, the doctrine of the Trichotomy — that is, the division of humans in body, soul and spirit — is not generally accepted in Catholicism. Rather, "spirit" is generally understood as a particular kind of soul, one which is rational and which can be thought of as immortal.

In Thomism (which I actually don't know as well as I should, but which I greatly admire), a distinction is made, following Aristotle, between vegetative, sensitive and rational souls, however. The first is common to all living beings, the second to the ones capable of sensation and movement, and the third only to intelligent beings.

The third kind is the only one which is truly immortal, although he does not seem to give a very convincing argument as to why it should differ from the others on this respect.

But it's not as if a human being has a vegetative soul, a sensitive soul and a rational soul; rather, she or he has a single soul (that is, his substantial form as a living being), which is vegetative, sensitive and rational.*

edited 25th Jan '12 1:56:55 PM by Carciofus

I've never really thought about this issue come to think of it. Even though I use soul and spirit for two entirely different concepts. A soul is the thing within all life that grants to it life and sentience. Souls are composed of bits of something, likely God if God is a thing, that cannot be broken down though their larger forms, the souls, can be broken apart. Which is how rebirth works. It's recycling of the soul bits and is why you can't remember the vast majority of your past lives. A great deal of detective work would have to be done.

Spirits on the other hand are another type of life, though perhaps not life as we humans currently define it. Some seem to be connected to in some form or another, either metaphorically or literally, to certain substances, ideals, and so on. I can't quite formulate a definition for all the types of beings I attach the spirit label to at this moment though. It's more a vague idea that makes sense in my head than anything else.

I suppose that, if I think about it, spirit could pose a solution to a problem I had. Namely what to name all the bits that God gives to absolutely everything in existence? Not everything is sentient but everything is God and is made of God, sustaining itself off God while living inside a universe that is encapsulated in God's being. Spirit I suppose could be a suitable enough for that substance for the time being.

So, according to your definition, humans are not spirits?

Also, I'm wondering what you mean by "thing" is "A soul is the thing within all life that grants to it life and sentience.".

Do you mean that a soul is some sort of object, albeit not a physical one? Or that it is a property that holds of a living and sentient thing, and which characterizes it uniquely as such?

No humans are not spirits. They are humans. A different class of being. Species I guess? The gods are types of species of creatures so...

It seems to be an object. Comprised of tinier objects that I suppose we could compare to atoms. Without the soul the being is not sentient. Though whether or not it can live without a soul seems to be up to debate...The sentience thing seems to hold true though.

It breaks up and gets reformed so it can be reused.