complete noob
Well, proving something without reference to facts...
Kinda like making a chicken without an egg to start with. Or even a growth phase as a chick.
Maybe it was mentioned in this thread already, in which case this one apologises. But this one wonders if these ideas of hell make sense to anyone:
- Everyone ends up in the presence of God in the afterlife. But it's one's feelings towards God that determine whether an experience would be heaven or hell for them. Like, everyone is invited to the concert, but obviously the people who like the kind of music being played would be ecstatic while those who hate that genre would wish they were deaf.
- A rather weird idea, but here it is. If this one remembers correctly, most ancient religions did not have pleasant afterlife, period. At best it was exactly like this life and at worst it was rather bleak. And said afterlife was more or less uniform, without much regard for earthly behaviour, with a few exceptions for heroes and those favoured by gods. And Christianity competed against these other religions, not against atheism, so pretty much everyone accepted the idea of bleak afterlife as a default. So, the whole "Heaven or Hell" deal actually meant "Heaven our god can take you to or land of shadows and loss your capricious uncaring gods send you to"
edited 21st Apr '11 8:29:42 AM by Beholderess
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
Sure, those ideas make sense. The first one would make a somewhat decent addition to the list of explanations believers use to shift the blame for the suffering of the damned away from their god. As for the latter, I don't know much about most of the ancient afterlives, but the idea that the Jesus meme complex has outcompeted others due in part to its particular conception of the afterlife is highly plausible.
PARTY HARD!!!!
I still like my theory of Hell being an OK place, but since it isn't as good as Heaven, and it's eternal, it counts as an "infinite" punishment.
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
In Riastrad
Of course you prefer your hypothesis* , Anonym. By definition you're more likely to accept your own unfounded idea as the truth than someone else's unfounded idea. Saying "My idea's better" does not contribute to the discussion in any way, does it?
Now, if you can provide a REASON your idea is better or more likely to be true, that's a different story.
I think that idea's pretty accurate, Beholderess. If you look throughout history, you'll notice that the peoples that believed in an afterlife that wasn't bleak and/or generally unpleasant resisted conversion a lot more, and typically had to be converted by force.
edited 21st Apr '11 10:26:51 AM by Diamonnes
My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
Please do not think that I've meant to imply that it is all a PR action or something like that. Not at all. What I've meant is - maybe in those times, considering the religions among which Christianity was born, "Accept Jesus or go to Hell" did not mean "My god will send you to Hell" but "Well, you could go to heaven - or continue following your gods and be stuck in the afterlife they offer".
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
In Riastrad
Right, right. If offered the choice between 'awesome' and 'meh', you pick the awesome one.
However, offered the choice between two pleasant possibilities, you're far more likely to pick the one you identify more easily with, which is typically the one you've known all your life.
My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.
That is certainly true
If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
PARTY HARD!!!!
@Dia: Hm, perhaps I should have taken this discussion a bit more seriously.
I suppose I was out of line to interject in such a lazy fashion. Also, "theory" is easy to type, but "hypothesis" is longer and requires extra thought. And that's terrible.
In any case, I apologize for the random interjection.
Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! ~ GOD
Proving something without referencing facts is by definition impossible.
Also, i'm considering sig-quoting the Kansas thing, but it's not polite to quote yourself.
My name is Cu Chulainn. Beside the raging sea I am left to moan. Sorrow I am, for I brought down my only son.