Scott Adams, Men's Rights-- Misogyny?

...what happened to Besserweisser?

@Barkey: The question isn't how many women want to go into combat roles. It's the principle that counts. Even if it's only one woman ever. If only one pygmy (is that an offensive term?) were able to compete in the NBA it would still be racist to ban him.

However I agree completely that the requirements for everyone should be the same. What is needed for the job should be the primary concern. If this requirements are met however you're in. No matter if you're female, male, intersexual, straight, gay, lefthanded or righthanded. It should be based on meritocracy not gender or any other arbitrary criterion.

About rape: In Switzerland the term Vergewaltigung (rape) is only applicable to female victims. But the perpetrator can be female or male. Interestingly that means women and men can rape women but men and women cannot rape men. But the most important part is that this is only semantics. Because forced or coerced sex with any person is treated with the same penalties as rape. I'm a bit at a loss why those two articles exist (literally) next to each other in the criminal law code. It's like somebody forgot to delete the older rape article after the new, gender neutral one, was added.

edited 25th Oct '13 4:59:44 PM by Antiteilchen

I was probably inaccurate in saying women in the UK cannot legally rape. What I should have said, and your quotes seem to certify, is that only rape by penetration is considered rape. That disregards rape by envelopment, which is the vast majority of rapes, at least in the case of section 4 of the Sexual Offenses Act 2003. Correct me if I'm wrong here. The Scottish law is more inclusive but you yourself said that it offers less punishment and limited to Scotland, I presume.

Someone is somehow putting my posts down.

edited 25th Oct '13 5:35:09 PM by Besserwisser

No, it's not quite the principle, not when it may hinder the effectiveness of the mission. If it might get people killed, jumping in with both feet first into the deep end is irresponsible.

Honestly, I advocate trying to stand up a female only infantry battalion first. If you can get a battalion of female 11B Infantry types to do the job without problems, then go for the rest. If co-ed is working out ok, then start doing special forces selection with some of the female infantry veterans.

Baby steps don't get people killed. But before we do any of this, the PT Test needs to be held to one gender standard. My own career field has tons of problems with females, and I'm saying that as someone who has one of the few outstanding female troops he's met as a subourdinate. She's outstanding, 90 percent of females in my job.. Well, they suck.

You know the legislature: you can't totally gun an old article down until even Appenzell (reluctantly) agrees.

Why, yes: an Appenzeller joke. I'm entitled! I lived in Fribourg for enough years!

edited 25th Oct '13 5:43:10 PM by Euodiachloris

Not quite; I direct you to section 4, subsection 4, sub-sub sections c) and d):

"A person" under the meaning of those sections could include a female rapist; coercing someone ("B") into penetrating their anus or vagina with a part of "B"'s body. So it seems to me envelopment is covered.

I don't know off the top of my head of any cases of actual charge and conviction; that's not to say they aren't there, but I'll need to look, and I don't want to do that now, since it's nearly 2am here. I can do it tomorrow if you wish.

Rape by penetration with something that is not a penis is in both English and Scottish law a separate but equally serious crime of "sexual assault by penetration" and is treated the same by the courts: imprisonment for life in England, imprisonment for life and a fine in Scotland.

The Scottish law offers the same level of punishment; the maximum sentence available in both juridictions is life imprisonment. What the Scottish law does differently, however, is not make the distinction between other forms of sexual coercion and those which involve forced envelopment and penetration, which the English law does. So the Scottish offence covers both the offences the English would consider liable to life imprisonment and theoretical lesser ones, which is why the sentencing guidelines set out in Schedule 2 of the Act permit a wider breadth of powers, from a fine to life imprisonment to both.

Now, theoretically speaking, one would expect forced envelopment to be given a harsher sentence - likely some years to life in prison, considering how male rapists are treated. However, again, I can't actually remember any cases off the top of my head, so I can't say if this is how the law is applied.

edited 25th Oct '13 5:49:18 PM by Achaemenid

As I said: They must meet the same standards as males, so combat effectiveness shouldn't be an issue. There should be no lesser requirements for females. The requierements for each role need to be set by what is needed (and only loosened if really no one better suited can be found).

You don't need to be entitled to make Appenzeller jokes. Anyone who denies women the vote in freaking 1990 deserves to be joked about.

Appenzell: making St Gallen and the bleeding Engadin look progressive since the C15th!

And, everybody knows how long it took the Confederation to dance into shape with getting the Valais on board...

Re: nusing pay. It's not bad, but it is not a lot considering the amount of work you're doing and you remember the changes in the work environment and cost of living since the 70s or when ever Barkey was a kid.

So, unless my posts are made visible again, I don't think I will talk on gender issues any more here. It's pretty pointless to argue my points when I'm just being censored and all you see is people responding to my posts with these or quoting some of what I said but not at all, which might exclude points I found particularly important. If the mods don't want an honest and open discussion, then I guess there's nothing I can do.

edited 27th Oct '13 9:35:06 AM by Besserwisser

Back to the OP topic, an interesting article from NY Magazine.

That's not what bro means at all...

Actually, 'bro/dudebro culture' in the way they're using it is quite a well recognised term, generally referring to a critical mass of clueless, bigoted manchildren.

edited 28th Oct '13 1:33:22 AM by Iaculus

If that's what 'bro culture' means to people I don't see why what I'm having this discussion. You might as well just replace bro with patriarchical.

Bro culture is more subconscious then an outright patriarchal attitude. And more dependent on group dynamics. The "It's just a joke." excuse is used often while a patriarch would not use an excuse at all.

It's more specific than that, a sort of college fratboy mentality that the bros in question never outgrew (the unveiling of the TitStare app was an excellent recent example). Patriarchy is quite a diverse concept.

Tell me that app isn't what it sounds like, please...

It is exactly what it sounds like.

Wait, so you take pictures of yourself while staring...

What? My initial reaction to that is that it's stupid rather than sexist even if it is both.

If were going to talk about 'bro culture' I guess I might as well ask what anyone thinks of pewdiepie.

edited 28th Oct '13 7:03:43 AM by Xopher001

First you'd have to explain who he is. I have no clue.

This guy?

edited 28th Oct '13 7:07:16 AM by KingZeal

No, that's exactly what the Patriarchy is. Patriarchy isn't all men universally going, "Man, women suck, let's work hard and oppress them!" It's a societal construct that exists buried beneath our culture and persists subconsciously in many of the things we do. We don't need a separate word that means the same exact damn thing just because so many people don't understand what the first word actually is.

As I mentioned, though, 'bro culture' does serve as a good term for a certain subset of patriarchal thought. You couldn't really describe the biotruthy, pseudoscientific sexism of the internet-sceptic crowd, the toxic resentment of Men Going Their Own Way, or the Stay in the Kitchen fundamentalism of the Religious Right as 'bro culture', for instance.

edited 28th Oct '13 7:30:15 AM by Iaculus

So it's a subset? ...dear god, I wanted to ask if the Patriarchy is really so pronounced that we actually need words for different facets of it, but I already know the answer to that. *sigh* Subset away.

edited 28th Oct '13 9:08:18 AM by TobiasDrake