Is religion simply indoctrination/brainwashing?

I have noticed that over the time I've been on the internet, that some atheists/antitheists/misotheists call religion nothing more than "indoctrination" and "brainwashing". While I did ignore this for quite some time—rationalizing it as the preaching of idiots—I have begun to look at this more clearly.

It was my own experience that led me to ask this: I identify as a Agnostic Christian Deist, that is, I'm not sure if a god exists, but I err on the side that one does, and it's the Abrahamic God; I used to be a fundimentalist, something I'm not too proud of.

While I could identify as an atheist tommorow and have literally no difference in my actions—religion is nothing more than a small part of my person—, and, indeed, I'm well aware that the idea of a god existing is utterly ridiculous and makes no sense when viewed logically, I continue to believe in a god, because—and this emphasis is important—I cannot comprehend myself living a life without believing in God.

Now, this is just one anecdote. But this made me wonder: Was I making this choice to be at least agnostic out of personal free will, or was I indoctrinated and brainwashed into the Christian faith so long that I was incapable of living without believing in God?

This could be applied to other situations as well: so, as I ask: Do you think religion is brainwashing/indoctrination, and, if you do, do you consider this highly unethical? If you believe it and are an a-/miso-/antitheist, did this contribute to you abandoning the idea of religion?

And, so, the discussion begins...

This won't go well.

Answer: In a way, yes.

I can hear a storm coming.

edited 8th Mar '11 6:59:26 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Of course, I shall take Glenn Magus Harvey's advice to heart:

"For maximum results, stay outside of the shitstorm."

Is being involved with any sort of belief system—including politics or culture—indoctrination/brainwashing?

Speaking objectively:

Yes.

Well, yes, but religious opinions don't tend to change as easily as political ones—such as how I became way more liberal after joining this forum.

If free will doesn't exist, then everything is brainwashing, as no choice is ever truly involved.

Just looked up the definition of indoctrination to find out what it actually means.

From what it looks like, the answer is yes. Even so, it's not a good term to use because of the negative connotations.

On the other hand, religion is NOT brainwashing.

But looking at my anecdote, it is brainwashing. And yeah, Personal Anecdote Fallacy, but it's a start,

All children are programmed, some with religion, and some without religion. I wouldn't call raising your children with your beliefs a form of brainwashing.

The connotation of brainwashing is that the programming is based on lies. The way I see it, this thread is basically: Is religion true?

edited 8th Mar '11 7:07:21 PM by Grain

There's levels of it. Not all religion is indoctrination or brainwashing, but the more extremest the people involved, the more indoctrination there is. Compare the nice old lady at the soup kitchen who quietly believes in God, to Jim Jones and his crew.

It's brainwashing in the same way what we teach in school is brainwashing.

Perhaps the key factor here is that people should have the ability to choose their religion. The people who have generally strike me as happier, more reasonable people than those who have blindly stuck to one religion without ever considering other possibilities.

Replace religion from the above sentences with any of the following:

• Philosophy
• Political belief
• Opinion

edited 8th Mar '11 7:07:03 PM by Usht

@Chagen For you it may have been. I wasn't brainwashed into believing what I believe now.

Can we get some new guys in here or what?

Or does everyone already assume this is a shitstorm?

I'm here, how can I beat down your argument for today?

Not seriously, but I can see the side that will get less support in this topic.

It's a storm waiting to happen.

Only if people take it personally instead of understanding it's a simple debate with a very lop sided introduction.

It's brainwashing in the same way what we teach in school is brainwashing.

This. Members of an alien culture might consider it brainwashing, but they'd probably consider many if not most aspects of our culture(s) similarly.

Is it indoctrination? Speaking literally, yes— indoctrination literally means instilling one's teachings or knowledge within another, and any sharing of opinion or knowledge is indoctrination, which is why indoctrination is an invaluable part of human society. Without it we'd never have the capacity to pass along learned behaviors, which is something only the most intelligent known organisms can do.

Is it brainwashing? Most of it is not, but it's a matter of degree.

At what point (if any) is teaching your kids your religion considered brainwashing? That seems to be point where "brainwashing" comes in.

Then again I don't consider it brainwashing, their brain isn't dirty yet.

edited 8th Mar '11 7:28:03 PM by ViralLamb

Brainwashing, in general, seems to start when you begin to actively instill a sense of fear or dread into your children in order to keep them "in the flock". Punishing children for thinking outside of religion/etc is another possible starting point.

The problem is, that for many people, that's a very, very grey area. Many fundamentalists will do the aforementioned out of a legitimate concern for their children's well being.

Some criteria/signs, for a start.

This...is technically true in a very literal sense, depending on your definition of the word indoctrination.

Apart from that, I would say generally not.

But I see no good future for this thread, so that's all I have to say.

You couldn't get a nor flame bait topic if you tried.

(besides "TWILIGHT RULLEZZZ!!!!!!111!!!)