Full Metal Alchemist General

Don't mean to change the topic, but something's just hit me about the 2003 anime's villains. I know not many are fans of 2003 FMA's portrayals of Kimblee and Barry, and they're both pretty shallow-but I think the writers had a point with them. In the manga, these two are portrayed as oddly likable, with shades of charm and honor. Nothing's wrong with likable villains, of course, but they're still terrorists and serial killers. That's kind of why I was uncomfortable with some of the "In Memorium" omakes. It felt like by having Barry and Kimblee go to heaven, the author was handwaving all the atrocities they committed, giving them in-universe Draco in Leather Pants treatment. The 2003 anime, on the other hand, really hammered home that these guys are fucking monsters, to be feared, not admired. After all, that's the same with a lot of evil people in the real world. (Of course, Barry's crossdressing habits come off as transphobic, which is poor taste on their part)

See, this is where you and I disagree.

Real serial killers, rapists, monsters, etc. don't usually announce their awfulness. They don't lurk in dark alleys brandishing knives with a murderous grin on their faces, whispering, "My, what a lovely flesh you have, it would look beautiful on my wall!" They're three-dimensional human beings. They're charismatic, they have friends and interests and non-monsterous aspirations, they debate whether Batman could beat up Superman and follow political races to decide who they want to vote for.

When they aren't committing their crimes, they look and act no different from any other person. The idea that evil people can easily be distinguished by their ugly features, creepy voices, and giant black hats is a comforting lie.

edited 8th Mar '16 11:25:54 AM by TobiasDrake

Didn't Barry and Kimblee also have some redeeming qualities?

Like Barry just liked to cut up people, still awful, but he stopped doing so and even helped save someone's life while not killing anyone?

Meanwhile Kimblee is a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality where to him, there is no evil there is only conviction to standards, Edward has never taken a life while Kimblee has, and when he sees Edward stick to that standard of his he feels nothing but respect for it.

I mean, we the audience might find them likable characters, but I don't think that any of the characters we're supposed to side with actually like Kimblee or Barry - grudgingly tolerate in the latter's case, maybe, and alternating between "burning contempt" and "scared shitless" for the former.

edited 8th Mar '16 12:26:26 PM by KarkatTheDalek

I actually really liked that too because while Ed did put himself in a worst situation, he also unknowingly got Kimblee's respect out of it too for sticking by his convictions.

Kimblee's best moment is, in my opinion, when he rejects the principle of dehumanizing your enemies during the Ishval Rebellion. The reveal that he memorizes the faces of everyone he kills on the battlefield.

"Accept that you are killing people. Don't forget them, because your victims will never forget you."

Things like this are exactly what I love about Mangahood's exploration of the military. Because he's a sadistic monster and yet, on some level, these words actually sound healthier than the standard practice of mentally reducing the enemy to some abstract concept of Other so that you can slaughter them without remorse.

Kimblee is a toxic Darwinist and a bit of a sadist but he's also more emotionally honest than a soldier is trained to be. He knows exactly what he's doing and he does it without hesitation, because it is exactly what he wants to be doing.

edited 8th Mar '16 1:18:24 PM by TobiasDrake

In this case, you can liken them to dingoes or wolves. They are cool and have traits we considered "noble", but nobody in their right mind would sitting with packs of them in the closed room. That just common sense.

I guess in terms of depth and character the Manga Kimblee is king whereas the 2003 anime is shallow and one note. I still prefer the 2003 anime series because of nostalgia and I could use a little cynicism from time to time.

Yeah, the idea that you can't show that evil people can have some not evil, or even admirable traits without "leather pantings" them strikes me as unhealthy. The vast majority of people are not uniformly evil without a single quality people might call "good". Showing them as actual human beings isn't justifying or siding with them. It's just showing them as human beings. Something people don't like to do because every now and then everyone ones to feel like they are absolutely better than someone else.

I personally hate the leather pants, to me a good villain is just a Villain. 3D villains are great, my favorite still being Xanatos from Gargoyles, but he was no question a bad guy.

The manga never justifies Kimblee or Bradley. I don't know where you could be pulling that notion from, beyond an omake which you are explicitly not supposed to take seriously.

And frankly driving home that someone is evil at the cost of anything approaching characterization is just sad.

The only thing that really paints Bradley in any kind of positive light is his fondness for his wife and his backstory. And the latter makes him a more tragic character yes, but doesn't really justify the cruel and petty things he does and feels, like being mad at a little girl crying at her father's funeral or leading a genocide.

And he dies peacefully, pleased with what happened to him.

He dies with dignity and grace, but finally succumbing to being stabbed, shot, and having both arms blown off is about as far from peaceful as one can get.

edited 10th Mar '16 7:56:32 AM by TobiasDrake

I don't know man.

Most people would be moaning in agonized pain after shit like that.

Or screaming OH GOD! MY ARMS ARE GONE! I'VE BEEN SHOT! I'VE BEEN STABBED AND OH GOD MY ARMS ARE GONE! AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

You know, if they didn't go into shock or something.

'Tis but a scratch.

The fact that he doesn't scream and just accepts his death shows that it was pretty peaceful. Ironic for Wrath.

He's 'ad worse.

Incoming live action adaption.

Huh. This Japanese film's getting flak for having an all-Japanese cast due to its European setting. That's fascinating. It's not unlike every argument we've ever had about casting white people in ethnic roles.

We're rubbing off on Japan.

edited 24th May '16 1:51:56 PM by TobiasDrake

So yellowwashing is a thing now.

Isn't Attack on Titan cast mostly Japanese?

It's a weird situation honestly. Obviously it would make sense to cast people of european descent for a lot of these characters, but that's typically not how the japanese film industry works, and it usually isn't a problem because most of the time with these adaptations the characters are japanese or of ambiguous nationalities/ethnicities anyways. But that's not the case with this series.

Now, let's just hope this is less "Attack On Titan" and more "Samurai X".

What about the Ishvalans? They are noted to have a darker skin tone.

The Rurouni Kenshin movies were pretty dope, yes, and in part that was because it was a property that could be transferred to live action relatively easily. There's some over-the-top stuff and Magical Realism but it's easy to downplay or just change.

Not really sure how FMA is gonna fare in this department since it involves a lot of stuff that would probably need pretty decent special effects, but we'll see.