Full Metal Alchemist General

That's an interesting way to look at it.

And considering how happy Truth was in the end, maybe that's all he really wants: for people to recognize their mistakes and better themselves in the process.

I honestly don't recall this scene in 2003.◊

Nor do I. Nor does it make any sense since Al doesn't sleep.

Is it fake? Very convincing if it's fake.

Speaking of 2003, what do you think of Dante's deconstruction of Equivalent Exchange? Or even how both shows handle that themes?

That was nice.

But I really have to disagree on the whole "trying to bring a loved one back from the dead is a sin" thing, one of the things that irratates me most about the series is that none of the characters ever say it's not a sin to want to see someone you love again.

It's one of the main reason why I find hoenheim to be somewhat unsympathetic, what with using the word sin, and not really apologizing about what happened to Ed and Al and not taking responsiblity (he does, but not until the LAST chapter, which I feel he could have done a lot earlier, as there were a bunch of moments he could have said this.)

Speaking of the first series,I sometimes wonder if i'm the only one who actually likes 2003 Wrath. I mean, he's called an annoying,whiny kid, but given the circumstances of his creation, I can't exactly blame him. I also liked how when we first meet him, he's a genuinely innocent kid who falls in with the wrong crowd out of his desire for a family. It helped me relate to him more, certainly more so than the outright-monstrous Envy and Dog-kicking brat Selim.

Trust me, you're not the only one. I remember watching the episode where he was introduced, then turning it off and thinking, "That was the best one yet."

Bleh. The whole time I was either saying "Ugh, the annoying kid" or "HE'S AN EVIL MONSTER TRYING TO KILL YOU. WHY IS TINMAN THE ONLY CHARACTER WILLING TO FIGHT BACK HERE."

He killed 2003 Lust that brat deserves to suffer >_>

Something that's bothered me about this series and I think would probably apply to the first anime, though I've never watched it, is the use of Humans Are Special.

It's one thing to say that homunculi aren't inherently better than humans but at some point it seemed to start saying the opposite.

I didn't mind Envy's suicide or his envy of humans because envy doesn't have to be rational, but Ed's whole speech about how humans, in general, never give up, never sat right with me. And then there are the points were it's implied that the homunculi are monsters, not for the evil things they're doing, but by the very nature of what they are, as if they asked to be created.

The first anime apparently has many of them wanting to become human because humans are just that great, apparently.

It's standard writing seeing as Most Writers Are Human, to want to stroke the old human ego and all, but I can't image if we were to ever find other intelligent life out there that they wouldn't be offended by these very complicated implications... assuming they don't have similar compulsions which they very well might.

edited 16th Feb '15 6:16:52 PM by LSBK

That bothered me somewhat too although the Manga!homuculi weren't meant to have any depth. I kind of liked how the 2003!anime handled them as they were really the manifestation of someone else's sins.

2003 Homunculi want to become humans because they were intended to be humans. They are all failed human transmutations of dead people. This is the source of most of their existential dilemmas - they are the person and yet they are not the person. They have that person's memories but a completely different identity is battling with those memories. Sloth didn't want to be Trisha Elric, she wanted to be Sloth and yet she was shackled to a life that wasn't really hers.

It's less Humans Are Special and more just that humans made these flawed, defective creatures that are trying to find their place in the world and some of them can only think of finding a place by being who they were intended to be.

edited 15th Feb '15 2:24:27 PM by Nikkolas

You're not.

You can end that sentence pretty much however you want, and I'm fairly sure that you're not alone.

In Mangahood, Envy's the only homunculus that actually wanted to be human, and that's because he's Envy.

Both Pride and Wrath have rants about how great and happy they are to be what they are, while Gluttony, Lust, and Sloth don't give a preference one way or the other. Greed desired many of the things humans have, but never gave an indication he wanted to be human - in fact, of all the things he could be, the one he shows the most interest in is an animate suit of armor like Al. He thinks that's just the coolest thing.

It's really just the Anime that is all, "Humans are great and we all wish we could be," and even then, that's mostly limited to Lust as it comes out that the other homunculi didn't care that much. Even Envy is given something else to be envious of rather than humanity.

edited 16th Feb '15 10:05:05 AM by TobiasDrake

I've often heard people say that one of the reasons 2003 anime was better was because it was more realistic. Again, I haven't seen the first anime, so I can't say if I would like it's ending better or not for sure, but just the way that phrase is being used gives me doubts.

When people say "realistic" in discussions like this they often me "everything was all dark, and everyone was miserable at the end", people confusing cynicism with realism is one of my biggest pet peeves.

And that is another, people who do they "Am I the only one who likes [X]", you know you aren't, so why even act like you are?

edited 16th Feb '15 6:18:05 PM by LSBK

Since Brotherhood came out most people treat FMA '03 like a disease and anyone who says they prefer it generally gets ribbed on.

I've seen it happen. I've had it happen to me. You say you prefer the first anime and people are like "what the fuck is wrong with you?"

I can guarantee you I've never seen behavior like that when Brotherhood fans say they like it more than the first anime. We disagree with them naturally but we don't act like the default and correct state of being is our view.

edited 16th Feb '15 6:39:39 PM by Nikkolas

This is the internet, people are assholes. Some people were speaking obnoxiously about the manga and Brotherhood here but that doesn't mean most fans of the 2003 anime do.

I'm not really sure what your point is because it has nothing to do with the point I was making.

edited 16th Feb '15 6:44:37 PM by LSBK

If I could share my own experiences...I personally think that Brotherhood's ending is satisfying in a way that few endings are. While the 2003 series' ending...I didn't hate it, but I wouldn't say I was satisfied with it.

I took the time to watch both shows, the 2003 series first, Brotherhood second. And while I enjoyed both of them, I ultimately thought that Brotherhood was the superior show.

In my opinion, I felt like 2003 fell apart around episode 40-41ish. Around the time Ed returned to Lior, everything started abandoning sense and slowly descending into craziness. It went from awesome to kind of decent, and then took a right-turn into buttf*ck crazytown in the last three episodes. I was not at all satisfied with the way it ended, but most anime end poorly, so I was willing to accept it.

So my final opinion on 2003 prior to Brotherhood was that it was really good until the last ten episodes.

Then Brotherhood came out and changed everything about how I see the 2003 anime. I can't even watch the original anymore, not because it's too different, but the opposite problem: it's too much the same. I see parallels everywhere. Everything that the 2003 anime does feels, to me, like a pale imitation of something Mangahood did better, and what doesn't is just pure nonsense, the stuff that took me out of the show the first time 'round.

edited 16th Feb '15 7:00:50 PM by TobiasDrake

I still think that the 2003 series had some good stuff, like their version of Sloth. Not to mention that they at least tried to give Lust something of a character arc, which was something that she lacked in Brotherhood.

Are we still talking about this after six years?

They did, but Lust's story didn't really appeal to me the way it did with others. I actually respected Mangahood Wrath's stance of "We're homonculi, and we're proud of it, just as you are proud of your humanity," more than Lust's, "We're homunculi and it sucks! Humans Are Special! I would do ANYTHING to be one of you!" That's...um...quite Envious of you, Lust.

Funny thing is, I was one of those hardcore 2003 fans that hated the manga prior to Brotherhood. I didn't know much about the manga, but I was a strict loyalist to 2003 because it was one of my favorite anime, and when I finally gave Brotherhood a chance, I was very harsh and judgmental - ESPECIALLY when the Gecko point hit. The episode that introduces Ling is the episode where everything is different now, and I despised Ling for embodying everything that's different about the series because of it.

Then Ling completely won me over and became my favorite character in the franchise, and I started giving the show a fair shake.

I advise watching FMA 2003 if for no other reason than it has a godly soundtrack.

Brothers, Dante's various themes, the 2nd ending and 4th opening (maybe the 2nd opening as well) stick out to me, but overall I prefer Brotherhood's.