Yes, finally someone is actually proposing to enforce immigration in the one way that makes the most sense/is actually possible to do. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually enforce it with this law on the books, however.

Now just get rid of the exemption and we're golden.

Also, I would say this law doesn't preclude making it easier to become a legal citizen. Honestly, if it were up to me I would do both.

edited 4th Mar '11 10:01:23 AM by deathjavu

Still thinking automated mortars and other land mine like measures would be best.

^

Why not both? Both are deterrents to people coming in. Less jobs, risk your life, essentially what we would face if we tried to sneak into Mexico to find a job.

I would face mortar barrages if I tried sneaking into Mexico? BRB going to the border with a squad cam.

Casual dehumanization of the Other at its finest. I especially love the irony in the specific instance of Mexico, given that the US is largely responsible for its current state to begin with.

Land of opportunity no more, I guess.

What's this about dehumanizing things? They're humans, they'll just be bits of humans in a while.

I was thinking of those fancy automortars that toss a frag/AP charge into the air as soon as something passes the sensor but doesn't have the proper IFF transmitter.

...I honestly can't think of any response that wouldn't be the textual equivalent of punching you in the face, Deboss. So I'm just going to walk away from this thread and let you and Tom enjoy your Medieval tribalism together.

Go for it, I don't mind.

I wouldn't mind, so long as we didn't deport them back to a failed state ruled by drug cartels. ..And these immigration restrictions weren't a blatant buffer against the spillover from NAFTA. Whatever.

edited 4th Mar '11 3:55:19 PM by johnnyfog

What I don't get is how there's only two camps, the annihilate anything trying to cross the border camp, and the let everybody who wants to come in come in camp.

Now I'm only half serious when I talk about putting tons of deathtraps on the border and such, but I hate how the other side seems to just think that this massive issue is perfectly ok just the way it is, and that people illegally spilling over our border every day is somehow acceptable.

I'm in favor of looser immigration restrictions for citizenship and work visas and such, but regardless of that, the border needs to be secured one way or another.

I'm not fine with the current situation; I believe that immigration restrictions should be loosened. Once people mostly come here legally, it should be a lot easier to secure the border against the remainder.

edited 4th Mar '11 3:02:07 PM by storyyeller

What about the concept of nationalism and borders being taken way too seriously and just plain overrated? In Britain, anti-immigration does also tend to be equivalent to xenophobic bigotry, which may have soured me towards such sentiments. The day I had to explain to my middle aged work colleagues what the Holocaust was, since they had genuinely never heard of it, pretty much sealed that.

Please tell me you're not serious. They never heard of the Holocaust?

edited 4th Mar '11 3:37:42 PM by rmctagg09

They'd vaguely heard of it, recalling it as "That thing with Hitler and that?" but that was as much as they knew and they were shocked to hear that millions of people were murdered. They were being serious.

A million is a statistic, 'yknow.

My english professor used a metaphor involving football fields to tally the death toll. That helped. It's hard to wrap your brain around otherwise.

I thought it was already illegal to hire illegal immigrants and that they just didn't bother to enforce it or anything. o.o

Precisely, it's just that enforcement on the real source of the problem (employers) is laughable compared to the zest with which they harass the symptoms (immigrants.) Look at this story from 2004 for an example.

I don't find the mortar salvo jokes funny, but I agree simply allowing tens of millions of Mexicans (among other nationalities) to flood in would be disastrous for us and them in the long term. Looking at the problem, many forget that the 12 million estimated illegals amount to only about a quarter of the additional 38 million legal immigrants. so the best solution would probably be to just pump up the minimum wage to more internationally normal levels ($12/hour is the most commonly discussed figure) and put a blanket ban on various exceptions to the minimum wage (which allow some employers, particularly in agriculture and service, to go as low as $1.60/hour legally.) There would still be problems in white collar industries, but that would wipe out the vast bulk of our appetite for inhumane labor.

Also, while we aren't responsible for everything wrong with Mexico today, like johnnyfog said, we are responsible (or at least capable of trivially fixing) most of it, and those especially acute problems are most of the impetuous for immigration. A healthier Mexico would be a Mexico far less dependant on being victimized by us for money.

If Mexico was wealthier and immigration was legalized, they wouldn't have such a huge problem with drug cartels as well.