Adultery: Can it really be justified, Good or Bad?

Justified is a strong term. Few things anyone does for leisure can be honestly justified.

Is it a good idea? Probably not, especially if you are betraying someone you know you will be naked and unconscious beside soon enough.

@Drunk I hate it when you make sense.

There's no justice in the world and there never was~

Well, why bind emotional bonding and economical partnership to sexual exclusivity?

"even if the husband beating is much rarer even when taking unreported cases into account."

Actually, it's not. Epidemiological studies, such as this study, generally find similar rates of male-on-female and female-on-male partner abuse, or else find higher rates of female-on-male abuse.

edited 2nd Mar '11 7:19:06 AM by Ettina

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.

What about finding a new partner after having moved out? *lives in acountry where marriages have to live apart(even if just in different rooms) for at least one year before they can divorce* Or if they're waiting for the divorce to be final?

Doesn't count.

Regardless of right and wrong, that is a valid consideration.

And the main reason this one would have a hard time forgiving cheating if it came to that. So, this person proved willing to betray me, and I am going to be naked and unconscious besides them soon enough (shudders). No way.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

"I'd wonder why someone doing it to escape from an abusive relationship is still in the abusive relationship and risking pissing off the abusive spouse even more with an affair instead of just going to the police."

Abuse does not always mean physical threat. It might be that you're fed up with certain types of uncaring and assholish behaviors that neither levelheaded discussions nor meek tolerance have managed to alter, and you're trying to get back at the person, and/or alleviate your stress and tension without ruining the relationship you believe still has potential by leaving the partner you very much love.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Wait, which relationship are you saying "still has potential"?

The one that isn't the side fling.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Okay, in that case,

If you're trying to fix your relationship through revenge or alleviating stress through deep betrayal, I'm sorry, but that relationship is already a train wreck heading toward a steep cliff. "Very much love" can't be reconciled with that kind of basic lack of respect.

Really, it's worse than that, because if it gets that vitriolic it's the kind of thing that has a tendency to throw fallout onto everyone around them instead of politely staying between the couple.

edited 2nd Mar '11 12:43:52 PM by Pykrete

Flawed relationship =/= train wreck, and adultery =/= deep betrayal.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

There's a big difference between a flawed relationship (i.e., all of them), and one so far gone that someone is actively perpetrating revenge upon their SO.

And yes, unless an open relationship has been previously agreed upon, adultery is a massive betrayal of trust.

Love is a complex emotion and often doesn't work on just "on" and "off" settings. Feeling betrayed or resentful by a loved one is an emotion that, in many cases, can be subconscious and buried, only to come to the surface at a later period. For example, let's take a wife who hates that her husband REFUSES to clean after himself when he uses the shower. For 20 years, she's lived with this and it's gradually, slooooooowly, gone from being an annoying quirk to being something that has begun to piss her off. She figures that she'll "teach him a lesson for his own good" and does something minor and petty to piss him off in turn.

I get a little anxious when people use the "well why don't you just X" argument about relationships. There's a reason why this is something that people generally need counseling for.

Pykrete, you're thinking of it in extremely black and white terms when it's a matter of gradation. What can be considered benign in general can be, accumulated over a period of time, perceived as intolerably stifling and the cheater may feel well within her or his right to act so drastically in order to gain the upper hand, at least for a brief time.

Also, seeing as people imbue sex with varying degrees of meaning, being intimate with someone else may not register as profound and monumental, especially if there had been a history of cheating, if the relationship had been started as an affair, or if the couple has discussed their relative indifference to adultery prior.

edited 2nd Mar '11 1:11:52 PM by kashchei

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

We're splitting hairs if the couple discussed cheating ahead of time or if there was a "history" of cheating.

The idea that everyone is subscribing to when we say "cheating" is a violation of trust. Doing something that you know will put stress on your relationship if the spouse found out, regardless of how illicit it actually is.

But...you just made it sound pretty black and white yourself...

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Anyways, as for why cheating is bad no matter how you try to rationalize it, imagine you have a best friend, and secretly he's been conspiring with your enemies to do something bad to you. And all the while pretending to actually be your friend.

That, is undoubtedly painful...and no matter how you look at it, unjustifiable even if you were a bad friend yourself (if you were, that person should have talked with you about it first, or just broken off any ties with you instead).

In most culture, marriage is even more Serious Business than friendships...in this case, cheating would be an even bigger betrayal than a best friend conspiring with other people to do harm.

...the marriage is pretty much doomed to fail sooner or later...

edited 2nd Mar '11 1:30:03 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I did mention it's rather different if they had discussed these things previously. Again, it's not even necessarily about the sex, it's about the breach of trust.

This, though, is another red flag that tells me it wasn't particularly healthy to begin with.

edited 2nd Mar '11 1:26:05 PM by Pykrete

Justified? Maybe. For example, an arranged marriage between two people who never loved each other in the first place. In that case I would view the adultery as being of null significance. Assuming they don't do something stupid and make the person they're actually married to at risk somehow, like by catching an STD through carelessness.

Depends on the "bad thing", but yes. It can be painful.

However, not all infidelity is malicious or premeditated. Sometimes it really is a "mistake", but one that makes you too happy to give up outright.

Might not be malicious, but being a mistake doesn't exactly excuse the cheater. Not cheating is a very easy thing to do...even in an abusive relationship, it's still pretty easy to not cheat.

Just like how accidentally breaking snapping a friend's brand new overpriced hockey stick doesn't excuse the tree-whacking hockey stick snapper, even if it was an accident...

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The main purpose of an arranged marriage is so that the two would learn to love each other eventually. Ideally, the parents choose their child's mates with what they think is best for them, in that scenario, the two are expected to get along and learn more about each other until they're a happy couple with children, and then they arrange their kid's mates and so on...

In that case, the marriage being loveless wouldn't be an adequate excuse, rather it's a sign of the cheater being lazy or lacking loyalty.

Of course, this all depends on one's definition and requirement of marriage. Marrying someone out of love isn't exactly the smartest thing to do for obvious reasons.

edited 2nd Mar '11 2:10:00 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Or their families simply wanted a common bond and ties. I don't mean marriage meeting type arranged marriages.

Is it really an excuse to cheat even if you married for the sake of the family?

That is the main purpose of marriage afterall, for the good of the family. Changing your name to be with your mate, getting part of their possession and wealth, etc. You essentially become your partner's property.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

In the situation as I've outlined it, it shouldn't hurt your actual spouse. Royalty had mistresses and concubines. If your partner isn't really expecting eternal love, is there really a duty to provide it? It may be better but I don't think it's necessarily bad if it doesn't happen.

If I gave you the impression that I was "excusing" anything, that wasn't my intention. I'm only stating that mistakes can be made and quickly snowball out of control. One time, I had an argument with a girlfriend because she continued to talk to her ex-boyfriend, even as we were dating. I told her that this made me extremely uncomfortable, but that I wouldn't ask her to stop. If I tell her to stop, she thinks I'm jealous and controlling, but if I act like it doesn't bother me, she wonders if I really want her at all. I just told her that if she ever got to the point where she even considered going back with him, to let me know and we'd work things out.

She got upset and accused me of "not trusting her", but I told her that I've seen far too many cases where talking to an ex eventually leads to rekindling of old feelings. Even if it doesn't directly make you cheat, it makes you start comparing what you have now to what you had then. She swore this wasn't the case . . . and then broke up with me for him about two months later.

My point being, I don't trust the "willpower" argument. "Cheating is easy. Just don't do it" doesn't even BEGIN to address the complex emotions, feelings and signals that persist in a relationship—especially one that lasts for years/decades or when both people have baggage. Like I said, emotions don't come with an "on" and "off" switch and I'm fairly on the "cynical" end of the Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism when someone claims to me that they can turn switch theirs off at the drop of a hat.

edited 2nd Mar '11 2:19:41 PM by KingZeal