"Casual hardcore"

A lot of video games are classified as "casual", generally meaning pick-up-and-play, simple controls, simple goal, easy to understand. Others are "hardcore", which could mean complicated, lots of controls to learn, challenging, and intended for those who have time to spare.

But what about games that are inbetween? Games that are easy to learn, but not insultingly simple to a "hardcore" gamer, and which don't necessarily require a time commitment?

I thought of such games as "bridge" games, that could bridge the gap between the causal and the hardcore gamer, but now that I thought about it some more, I think there's a different term I prefer: "casual hardcore". Games that are, to an extent, both.

Exceptionally simple games like Wii Sports wouldn't count, of course. They are only "casual". Games like The Legend Of Zelda series would be "hardcore" due to their complication and time commitment. Call Of Duty doesn't count due to the complication and number of buttons/keys the player needs to know and deal with, whereas the more simple Serious Sam would probably count.

Note that this has nothing to do with challenge. Games like Angry Birds still put up a challenge, yet are as casual as they come, and also do not count.

A good example, probably the best example in fact, would be New Super Mario Bros Wii. It requires little time commitment due to its short levels, is relatively simple to learn how to play, and yet appeals to hardcore gamers due to the challenge and hidden depth, such as alternate level exits and the giant coin collection challenge.

Another good example might be Dungeons And Dragons Shadow Over Mystara. You can play it just moving the character and hitting the attack button again and again, while more advanced players will want to collect the money to buy weapons and items, use magic spells and items strategically, and search out hidden areas. The game can be simple, or slightly complicated.

What do you think of the "casual hardcore" concept? Personally, I'd like to see more games like this. They'd do great to bridge the gap between the casual players and the hardcore players, giving them something both can enjoy - something relatively simple, but not insultingly simple, and with depth that can appeal to the hardcore. Plus, "lapsed gamers", or those with less spare time than they used to have, who therefore wouldn't have the time for "hardcore" games, could enjoy these as well.

(Now that I think about it, this sounds a lot like a YKTTW. Hmm...)

Something like easy to learn, hard to master?

Anyone can pick up and play, but only the completely dedicated will find and complete all the secret levels, worlds, and such?

There are tons more hardcore player on casual games. Always has been (coin op arcade games are basically casual games. Think about it.)

Whenever casual hardcore is brought up in the circles I hang in, it usually implies one who is obsessed with retro games and retro-styled games because those games are what were hardcore when we were growing up. We don't care too much for the new stuff so we're "casual" to the Halo crowd. We have jobs and can't really devote our entire life to gaming anymore so we're "casual" to the kids who grew up with the PS 2.

YMMV on if the term can be used like that. That's just how me and a couple of other forums use it.

I like pretty much anything though, so alternatively it could mean someone like me who has 80+ games and has only cared to beat three of them.

edited 1st Mar '11 10:33:43 AM by chocoboxxx

The whole casual/hardcore thing kinda bugs me on general principle, to be honest. I'll be playing a stupid-easy kids' game and enjoying the crap out of it one day, then a stupid-hard retraux platformer the next, and after that I'll spend a month on a stupid-long JRPG, during which time I'll probably be alternating in the kids' game and platformer and enjoying all three.

Probably playing multiple games at once is at least "core" by definition, but what's it mean when a given player enjoys casual and hardcore games about equally? And is hardcore here referring to "Gamer who loves Nintendo Hard" or "Gamer who loves Rated M for Money"?

There are hardcore social networking games. Mob Wars, Farmville, etc, etc.

Maybe it's just me, but I would apply to you the title of the hardest game you're willing to play.

If you play only stuff like peggle, you get the casual label. However, if you play I Wanna Be The Guy and peggle, you get the label "Masochist".

edited 1st Mar '11 10:46:00 AM by Deathonabun

Frontierville - my wife is seriously into that game. Going for 100% quest completion, enters into contests, yadda yadda.

Then she play Black Ops to hang out with friends.

Yeah, she's a bit wierd.

So...she plays casual games in a hardcore manner, and then plays first person shooters to cool off?

THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE MEAN NOTHING

@chocoboxxx

Good point. The "hardcore" of the past, by and large, is the "moderate" of today. Simple to learn, but still with depth.

And I consider "casual hardcore" to be a genre of game or style of game design, rather than a type of person, I suppose.

edited 1st Mar '11 10:51:54 AM by BonsaiForest

Most of the so-called "hardcore" are just "core" gamers in my eyes. The truly hardcore will fully parry your super combo on the last iota of health and retaliate with a game-winning move. The truly hardcore can ramp start an F-16C, Ka-50, or A-10C in their sleep, take off, blow some stuff up, refuel in the air if necessary, and land in one piece in the middle of thick fog they can't see through. The truly hardcore will beat I Wanna Be The Guy and one-credit-clear something like Mushihimesama Futari.

But maybe it's more of a manner of playstyle, like intentionally setting up combos and trying to get special pieces in a Match-Three Game.

Or is it just a term waved around as a sort of snobbery and elitism, waved around by those who actually have nothing to do but play games and thus have the time to dedicate to getting good at them? (I sure wish I had that sort of time again...)

x5... So, since I did play peggle and Iwbtg on very hard difficulty (And completed both), that makes me that??

Um, lol. Well whatever, the point is that I dont see to fit on either Casual or Hardcore definitions (Althougt if I HAD to choice between those two, I choice Hardcore)...

edited 1st Mar '11 10:57:11 AM by NONAMEGIVEN

Yup yup. I would indeed call you a masochist. Although simply hardcore would do.

Really, though, they're all just titles. They only mean what you think they mean, and everyone has a different opinion on them.

Argh, I should have named this topic "Casual hardcore game design", so people wouldn't turn this into an argument over player types.

But yes, the terms don't have totally defined meanings. Still, I do think there's something to be said for a game design that can be inviting to those who are lacking in spare time or don't want too many complications dumped on them, while still containing enough depth to satisfy those who don't spend all their time on the iPhone.

Casual hardcore has always been a player term, not a genre term.

I actually don't recall ever seeing that term anywhere. But anyway, I should have named this topic something else. Maybe I should start a different topic and call it "games that are easy to pick up, but with depth", which would be far less likely to go off the intended course.

You never see it because it's usually abbreviated to the stupid "hardcasual".

It all sounds like porn to me.

x5 Yeah I know. I think I even like it anyways .

edited 1st Mar '11 11:19:36 AM by NONAMEGIVEN

Look, you're hardcore if you anxiously await a game. Like Cake Mania. That game has some serious people.

I continue to maintain that the only people who seriously use the term "hardcore" to define themselves have some self-esteem issues.

Video games have always been casual, ever since the first Pong machine was designed for one-handed control (so you could play it while holding a beer). Trying to defend gaming as "hardcore" being under siege by "casuals" make me laugh in mockery.

—R.J.

My wife is gradually treating Black Ops as Serious Business, though.

It's how she is with any game she plays. It starts off as fun, and then, somethign in her head cracks or goes off kilter, adn it's SRS BSNS time.

Casual hardcore in mind is pretty similar to what people like to call "fratcore". People who like Call of Duty post MW, Halo, Madden, "mature" games, and pretty anything that gets GOTY. More interested about visuals and blowing crap up than the depth of the game.

"Fratcore"! That's the word I've been looking for, I've been trying to find a better name for "Faux Hardcore Gamers" for ever, thanks!

@rjung

Exactly why, even though I have a few Nintendo Hard games under my belt and will be attacking more, I'm leery about calling myself hardcore. I'm just a videogame geek.

I don't like the entire "hardcore"/"casual" dichotomy. People play games, they have fun, period. Using stuff like "casual" to single out a group for derision just goes against the whole spirit of the thing.

—R.J.