Split the Union!

The only way to redistrict or restructure would be based on religious views. Social views are largely dependent on the religiosity of the person. And since the majority of Americans are socially liberal, unless there is a large religious influence, you'd basically have the same country.

Economic views are also evenly split into thirds. Only the deep-south, the west-coast, and Texas have any homogeneity on this issue.

There's also not a whole lot of difference between cultures, either. There's a lot of difference on the surface, but most Americans can easily fit into the generic American culture. It's just a few details here and there that mark any difference.

The trait that has the largest influence on political, cultural, or economic behavior is religion. I realize everyone's an individual, but all Americans are very similar if they match the most common religious behavior. Your typical American is a Christian who goes to Church once or twice a year. The amount of church-going is influenced by a person's region - a typical southerner may go once every two months, and someone on the west coast may not go at all.

If you were to redistrict it to have more culturally homogeneous regions/states, you'd have to divide it up by religion. Most likely by the amount of times the person goes to church.

And, before I get accused of stereotyping or informed that not all Americans are Christians, I would like to say that, yes, I realize that. But the majority of them claim to be - either because they are, or because it is the culturally correct way of answering the question. But in general, Americans are culturally homogeneous. The amount of times a person goes to church only slightly moves the likelihood of social conservatism up, with exception if they go to church weekly - then they are most likely extremely conservative.

(Remember... I'm only talking about social views when I use liberal or conservative, unless otherwise noted. Then use the American versions. =P)

edited 1st Mar '11 8:42:44 AM by Completion

The only people who would even want to split the Union based on political views are the extremists who are so far out there that they see political agreements as irreconcilable. The vast majority of Americans get along fine, even if they do have major political disagreements.

The only ones who would like your idea are fringe groups like the KKK, Neo-Nazis, Communists, et cetera, for the simple reason that only the most irrational and prejudiced people would be incapable of getting along, and therefore want a separate country.

tl;dr: Do you have to work at being so hatefully fanatical and prejudiced against anyone who disagrees with you, or does it just come naturally?

...

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, every hill and mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plain, and the crooked places will be made straight, and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.

This is our hope. This is the faith that I go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope. With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to stand up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day.

This will be the day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring."

And if America is to be a great nation this must become true. So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania!

Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado!

Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California!

But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia!

Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee!

Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring.

And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

Thank God we are free at last to share our ideals and beliefs without driving each other out. That's right people, I just appealed to emotion. And I'm happy about it.

Given that I'm not a patriot and not a christian, your appeal fell flat.

@Wanderhome: Those who "disagree with me" would deprive me of my rights because of my lifestyle (read: smoking weed). That's pretty irreconciliable.

edited 1st Mar '11 10:46:18 AM by SavageHeathen

"Given that I'm not a patriot and not a christian, your appeal fell flat. "

Christianity and nationalism were not the point of that statement. The point was that freedom and equality are necessary for a civilization of any sort to have lasting success for its people.

So, you know, it's an argument against things like segregation and ghettoization  ^*

Or you know, not to split the union.

This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping.
Stay on topic, please.

We've discussed that topic. Drug trafficking has proven in the past to cause violence and corruption, even when the law ignored it. So long as there is violence and corruption, there is less liberty to go around.

^^Yes, pot is illegal, so DISBAND THE UNION!

The only drugs that would either have no effect or only increase it slightly would be the hallucinogens, marijuana, and ecstasy.

Legalization the hard drugs, such as opening amphetamine/methamphetamine to recreational use (it's already used in Adderall for people with ADHD or narcolepsy.), cocaine, and heroin would be disastrous. Not trying to be your D.A.R.E. teacher here, but it's very easy to become addicted to those drugs. Not surprising, considering that make you feel amazing.

But yeah, legalizing amphetamines, cocaine, and heroin is just a terrible idea. Want proof? Look at someone with ADHD when they go off their Adderall. Watch how quickly it takes for them to bite the shit out of their cheek and grind down their teeth. About six hours. That's why they give the kids Ritalin.

Is legalizing amphetamines/cocaine/heroin even a serious consideration for liberals? Liberals aren't about the largest amount of person freedom - that's libertarian. Liberals are about the balancing the welfare of the individual and society. Legalizing those are pretty much antithetical to liberal ideas.

http://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2010/02/money.html

There is a fascinating look at the why of how impractical it would be to split the union. It shows the degree of interconnection and where the lines of economy are drawn.

As to the legalization of drugs. People have a mistaken assumption of how addictive the so called hard drugs are and they have a warped perception of how damaging they are.

First things first. Heroin. Heroin has no practical reason to be illegal. Every single painkiller that anyone takes that isnt aspirin, Tylenol, alleve, motrin or gabapentin is a narcotic. Every single one. Morphine makes heroin look weak and fentanyl is a hundred times as potent as morphine. Morphates are more dangerous than most OT Cs but is less likely to kill you than Tylenol which is like liver dynamite. As long as people read the dosage advisories that would be published on labels and nasal narc an was sold along side the hard stuff the risks would be minimal.

Second. Cocaine. Cocaine is generally more toxic to the body than heroin, but only because of how it stimulates the body. It can cause some serious heart problems and tends to do terrible things to judgement. Bt cocaine doesnt actually stay in the body long. It comes and goes like a fart on the wind. It is actually the epinephrine that it stimulates that will kill you. Cocaine is action wise identical to medications used to treat depression and parkinsons.

Third, meth is toxic shit.

I think even if the Union split peacefully, determining who gets the debt would be a huge issue. If ever China would come knocking for us to pay up, it would be then.

This will never happen, so it's not really a meaningful question.

"In theory" I don't know, as long as my freedoms aren't infringed upon I could probably care less.

Splitting the Union would cause chaos as passports are made, border defense is build, citizenship is figured out, and large elections are being held.

Plus, we might lose our superpower status.

"Might?" That's a tad generous if you ask me.

Not that I'm one to care about that. As I said above as long as my life doesn't change in any negative way I could care less as to where I legally live.

Replace all instances of white with 'conservative' and all instances of black with liberal:

We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization — black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand, and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion, and love.

For those of you who are black and are tempted to fill with — be filled with hatred and mistrust of the injustice of such an act, against all white people, I would only say that I can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.

But we have to make an effort in the United States. We have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond, or go beyond these rather difficult times.

My favorite poem, my — my favorite poet was Aeschylus. And he once wrote:

• Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget
• falls drop by drop upon the heart,
• until, in our own despair,
• against our will,
• comes wisdom
• through the awful grace of God.

What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love, and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black.

We can do well in this country. We will have difficult times. We've had difficult times in the past, but we — and we will have difficult times in the future. It is not the end of violence; it is not the end of lawlessness; and it's not the end of disorder.

But the vast majority of white people and the vast majority of black people in this country want to live together, want to improve the quality of our life, and want justice for all human beings that abide in our land.

Even ignoring the obvious global economic and political collapse that would result from this, the idea is insanely silly.

edited 1st Mar '11 12:43:37 PM by Pentadragon

That's another thing. I think we're far too fond of playing the blame game in this country's politics. The Left blames the Right, the Right blames the Left, and the guys in the middle blame both. It's silly.

Every country is like that, unfortunately. Politics is a dirty business. It will probably never change.

edited 1st Mar '11 12:45:43 PM by Completion

It might just be more noticeable because y'know, I live here. But it does seem a lot worse here than some other places (and better than others, at least we don't live in a monoparty system).

Rule number 1 about politics anywhere: It always starts with "I present you shiny while I throw mud at that other guy". It goes everywhere. If people split every time someone disagreed, we wouldn't be nations anymore.

^ We wouldn't even have this very forum or wiki.

always thought it would be fun to imagine selling the alternate earths to factions, so people who want a [insert culture, ideology, or religion of choice here] planet could have one, and people who insist on fighting each other over territory can stay on the old earth. - Frodo Goofball

My slightly cynical view is that all the ultra-wealthy business owners would move to the Conservative side; all the middle-class and any other poor people with the ability to do so would move to the Liberal side; and in a few generations when the Conservatives run short on slavesworkers, they take the military and conquer the Liberal side. Which I'll be fine with, because at the split point I'm packing up and moving to Australia.

Maybe this is a really naive way to start my own thoughts on the issue, but maybe it needs to be deconstructed a bit?

The Civil War still resonantes with the American people strongly, not disregarding this fact. But what exactly has stopped the U.S. from having another Civil War? I'm not talking about seceding, I'm talking all out war. Sure it's been a good 150 years, but people eventually forget the weight of history.

Is it because there isn't an issue that threatens the very way of life for our countrymen? Or is it because, in some strange way, the polarity is what creates unity?

I just find it bizarre. I live in a place where in 2009 we passed on legislation that allowed gay marriage through the state. Now? We have senators trying to put in laws that are essentially Jim Crow II: Electric Bungaloo. Just the fact that I'm using this kind of language to describe someone shows the polarization. How polarized I feel. How in the world have we avoided war for 150 years?

edited 2nd Mar '11 1:13:50 AM by SubtlyinyourMind

Well, the increased power of the federal government and the military has had something to do with it, along with the ability of information to flow instantaneously. Rather than allowing separatist tendencies to fester relatively unchecked in state-houses, the federal government and the people can both see them as they happen and respond accordingly. Also Americans like being a superpower and a civil war would most definitely put the kibosh on that.

"...the only sane thing to do is split the union..."

I must be one insane mother-fucker then. Not surprised.

Seriously though, wouldn't work. Would weaken us. Probably destroy us down the road. Positives would be short-lived. So...no.

edited 2nd Mar '11 4:36:59 AM by ViralLamb