Evolution-Creationism Debates:

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I noticed we didn't have a thread for this, so I made one.

It just baffles me how many creationists argue by treating evolution as a full worldview and criticize it for "not answering" philosophical questions that evolution never sought out to answer. It's like somewhere along the line they confused evolution with "nihilistic strawman atheism". Asking evolution to answer "what was the origin of life", or worse yet "where did matter come from", is like asking the Bible "Who was George Washington" or "Prove Fermat's Last Theorem".
The Ant King
Kill all math nerds
3 Tzetze25th Feb 2011 04:49:27 PM from a converted church in Venice, Italy
DUMB
With the right algorithm, I could get a proof of Fermat's last theorem out of the Bible.
bitchy queen
I don't think there are any Creationist tropers here...so I'm not sure how much real discussion could happen in this thread.
"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time

I think there's quite a few here, but it just doesn't come up much.
6 pvtnum1125th Feb 2011 04:51:21 PM from Kerbin low orbit , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
I might be one, but I'm choosing to exercise my 5th Ammendment right on that. tongue
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
This thread isn't intended for debates so much as for discussion of debates, though if any creationists show up that is subject to change.
8 pvtnum1125th Feb 2011 04:53:54 PM from Kerbin low orbit , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
I think the debate is good to have, as far as that goes.

Not that Creationism proponents always agree on the mechanics involved in that, either. Young Earth, Old Earth, and so on.
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
What gets me is how people on both sides of the 'debate' conflate evolution with the theory of evolution or distinguish between macro- and micro-evolution.
I note that in referring to creationists to my father, I always have to say "7-day 24-hour creationists", because if I just call them creationists he will protest that God DID create everything, and if I just call them 7-day creationists then he will protest that God DID create everything in seven days, they just were abstract God-days uncorrelated to the human concept of days.
11 pvtnum1125th Feb 2011 05:00:17 PM from Kerbin low orbit , Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
OMG NO NOSECONES
I'm more inclined to put stock in the Old earth Creationism account - and that "Day" is more accurately translated into "time period".

But, then I run into trouble as plants were created before the Sun. Grrr.
Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.
Considering how many more theist evolutionists there are than literalist creationists, it's possible that the creation story in The Bible is inaccurate because providing man with actual scientific knowledge would be equivalent to just making bread fall from the sky whenever someone becomes hungry, as Jesus specifically states God does not do.
bitchy queen
Hmm, interesting. When I think of pure Creationism, I think of New Earth Creationism. People who believe God jump started the universe and allowed for evolution to occur and whatnot seem to be on the same page as people who acknowledge evolution. I tend to view them as (mostly) on the same side.

I suppose I should have said I don't think there are any New Earth Creationists here to my knowledge. Although, I could always be wrong.

edited 25th Feb '11 5:08:22 PM by snailbait

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time

Moments Like Ghosts
I don't see how evolution and creation are mutually exclusive.

[up][up][up][up] Yeah, it's important to distinguish between those who believe a higher power orchestrated/had some hand in creation versus those who take Genesis literally word for word. (I suspect more are in the former category).

edited 25th Feb '11 5:11:04 PM by apassingthought

15 Chagen4625th Feb 2011 05:10:17 PM from I don't really know
I remember reading in a book that if you take the seven days of creation and divide them by the number of years that it took for the universe to get to the point of the bible being written, you get a surprisingly even number. Or something like that.

Basically, the days weren't actual days, they were billions of years each. God just called them days to get the point across easier.

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Yeah, I'm pretty much on the evolution side of the argument. I only jump in on the opposite side when athiest evolutionists use YEC to discredit Christianity.
17 del_diablo25th Feb 2011 05:31:57 PM from Somewher in mid Norway
Den harde nordmann
Since when was this a "debate", since a debate requires 2 sides with arguments.
This is nothing but a farse for a simple reason: Evolution is a proven theory, and all arguments against it is nothing more than random nitpicking in a desperate attempt at saving their own faces.
Give me 1 rational creationist, who are willing to debate, and we shall so how long the person remains a "creationist" :P
A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
They see me troll'n
Then why would the term DAYS be used? Because DAY has always, even through the passing of languages (translated of course) been the reference of a cycle of the sun's rising and setting.

Frankly the whole "1 day = eons!" thing is just a lame cop out.
The word in Hebrew does not actually MEAN "day" in the modern English sense.
20 Tzetze25th Feb 2011 06:33:13 PM from a converted church in Venice, Italy
DUMB
Nothing in ancient Hebrew means anything in the modern sense.
Unchanging Avatar.
@Tze: And?

@CD: You could say it's metaphorical (most people agree that a lot of the Bible is) since the Israelites had no chance of understanding the truth. It's a lot easier to relate to days than eons when you haven't gotten the concept of space yet.
Except for 4/1/2011. That day lingers in my memory like...metaphor here...I should go.
They see me troll'n
And about the sun being created after the Earth?

The 7 day creation is just a children's story, akin to Santa Claus. The fact adults still cling to it, despite scientific evidence to contrary, is rather sad.
I really don't see why more people take the seven-twenty-four-hour-day creation story literally more often than they do to the story of the Tower Of Babel.
Maybe because Genesis to them means "god made a whole world for me and I'm special in it" while The Tower of Babel thing means god is a harsh critic of architecture?
I actually saw a pretty good analysis of the Tower Of Babel story claiming that it's an allegory against dictators.

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