General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

x10 Didn't we just get Sonic Generations not too long ago, which was straight up Continuity Porn?

The levels certainly were.

The actual plot itself seemed to treat each location as some strange never-before seen area, with the exception of Green Hill Zone, and the partial exception of Chemical Plant Zone, with the only actual continuity in the plot mentioning Secret Rings and Colours.

Some more noting of the series' previous events would be appreciated.

Compared to almost any other medium, the word count in videogames is actually quite small. that developers rely so much on dialogue and cutscenes to convey story is actually a problem because it's inefficient.

No it's not. You don't need narration in order to tell a story and you especially don't need it in a visual medium. There are even short stories that only use dialogue and are still quite interesting (it is very difficult to do but it can be done). If there's a problem with storytelling in video games, it's that not enough of them are doing things like have characters talk about things while the player is solving a puzzle or running around or something. Some games like Resident Evil 6 and Bastion do this but not enough do.

Well video games tend to have hours upon hours of content, right?

So while speaking and the like provide less of the overall story than it does in movies, there's also the fact that the overall story is much larger than it is for a movie.

There's about as much, if not more dialouge in a game than a movie. Although most of the time you don't need cutscenes in a video game, at it's best a cutscene heavy game provides a good movie plot in the game, at it's worse it outright detracts from the medium by trying to intergrate another into it.

Cutscenes are best used as an 'introduction', for the game itself, significant characters and/or enemies, the likes.

Cutscenese only become problems when the cutscene-to-gameplay ratio approaches 1:1 (with the exception being Visual Novels which are basically very long cutscenes with the odd bit of gameplay here or there or works that are part Visual Novel like the Persona series). Of course, this largely depends on the genre. In RPGs, a ratio closer to 1:1 isn't too bad but puzzle games, shooters, and platformers should use them very sparingly.

Cutscenes, like tropes, are tools and there is no universal best way to use a tool.

edited 29th Jan '15 6:01:25 AM by Zelenal

Well in most games, cutscenes interrupt gameplay.

What better reason to interrupt it than to introduce something that'll be significant?

Although, when done right, QT Es would be a good way of still having gameplay during these cutscenes. Of course, who's gonna do them right?

Stop reminding me of RE 4

Zel, would you call the cutscenes in Metal Gear Solid 4 problematic?

The overall story might be larger but the actual story content probably isn't, given that in many games the bulk of the experience is spent in gameplay segments which don't provide consistent story moments.

That depends on the game, but perhaps I misspoke.

In a movie, there's a much higher ratio of dialogue per minute in the running time than a game, usually.

even then, you have so many other tools at your disposal when it comes to story-telling in games that I really think you should use dialogue as necessary.

...yes? That's basically an extension of what I said. You don't need dialogue, narration, or even really words to tell a story.

You can convey a lot of narrative information with scenery, music, facial expressions, etc. By simply stringing together a game's plot with cutscenes interspersed with gameplay (which is how most games do it), you're doing a poor job of using gaming as a narrative medium. Having dialogue during gameplay is one way to minimize this, but it's far from the only one.

Consider the fact that games like Demon's Souls or Shadow of the Colossus have very sparse, minimalist narratives that still manage to be more engaging than most story-heavy games. Cutscenes are tools, but they shouldn't be the only tools you use to tell your story.

Alternatively, also watch these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG1ziCvLkJ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGXIR2dlktc&list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5ATCznEwJx794x4RMuYNZLN

edited 29th Jan '15 7:18:41 AM by wehrmacht

I think I might have just bought a Sonic comic off of eBay from Ken Penders. Like, it came with an ad for The Lara Su Chronicles signed and specifically addressed to me ("To <my name>—Best, Ken Penders").

I haven't payed a MGS game in my life so I wouldn't know.

You don't at least know that particular game's infamy with its cutscenes?

The only thing I know about that game is some kind of microwave hallway that apparently makes even Chuck Norris shed Manly Tears.

@Odd1: What issue was this Sonic comic? Was the ad actually inside the comic book's pages?

I think Dialogue During Gameplay in the vein of Kid Icarus: Uprising would be the best for Sonic. It doesn't disrupt the flow of the game (something which is really important for Sonic) while mixing meaningful character interaction with brief descriptions of the obstacles ahead.

The only problem with Dialogue During Gameplay is that I have difficulty focusing on one without completely zoning out the other. Either I listen to the dialogue and get killed (or just stop going through the level) or I try to focus on completing the level, but miss out on the character interactions. That's why I prefer cutscenes.

I'm surprised to see how much dialogue there is in Rise of Lyric. There's foreshadowing and even some metatextual humor in there. Ah, What Could Have Been.

Well, here's an example:

"BOUNCE PAD!"

"YEAH, BOOST RING!"

Now replay that about 90 times.

But. There's also scenes like Sonic theorizing little details about the game's villain that the narrative wouldn't normally take the time to question. Another scene has Sonic how to quip in mid-battle. Another scene had Tails suggesting that a giant "pre-boss battle area" would inevitably contain some gigantic creature for them to fight. Another scene highlighted Amy's role as "the acrobat" in the group.

A lot of self-referencing and tongue-in-cheek humor.

edited 29th Jan '15 12:39:09 PM by FOFD

I heard Sonic Boom had Dialogue During Gameplay and it... didn't go over so well. EDIT:

edited 29th Jan '15 12:30:21 PM by spashthebandragon

Heroes had that kind of dialogue too. Its failure stemmed from the fact that they keep saying the same things over and over again instead of actual interaction.

The context specific dialogue was the problem.

When it was just character interactions it was fine.

Heroes had more interactions than repeated dialogue, but like Sonic Boom it always repeated some of the contextspecific dialogue.

edited 29th Jan '15 1:15:45 PM by randomness4

I think the best example I have of Dialogue During Gameplay that isn't, say, Bastion is Nie R.

There WAS dialogue during battles occasionally, but most of it happened while you were running from place to place, and it added a LOT of characterization that would not have really fit in the main story.

i could picture sonic reminiscing on past battles with Eggman, making commentary on the stage he's currently in, or just saying whatever as he goes through stages, but it would depend on the voice-acting and the actual quality of the dialogue. I don't really mind Pontac and Graff's writing, but I already know it's a contentious subject here.

edited 29th Jan '15 1:47:57 PM by wehrmacht

Wait, now I remember.

Heroes and Shadow was less about repeating the same things over and over again and more about repeatedly stating the obvious (which is exactly what Boom does, ironically). This actually isn't a bad thing on its own, but they barely mix in any interaction.

Writing for video games depends entirely on how close the developers and writers are when the game is in development.

Sonic games, I'm assuming, have the story written for them very late into the game's development, so they're forced to write around the gameplay or ignore it entirely(Which bleeds into another trope).

This would explain why more of the ambitious Sonic plots are poorly handled, or why other plots are incredibly simplified.