Can Game Design Encourage Girls to Learn Computer Science?

Apparently so.

edited 13th Feb '11 6:53:31 PM by Tangent128

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?

The game in that picture...Never Winter Nights?

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Neat!

♥♥II'GSJQGDvhhMKOmXunSrogZliLHGKVMhGVmNhBzGUPiXLYki'GRQhBITqQrrOIJKNWiXKO♥♥

I approve so hard of anything that:

1. decreases the gap between male and female enrolment in computer science and related disciplines.
2. creates more gamer girls.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

Well, more girls designing games at least. Which should still help fix the cultural issues that turn girls away from gaming.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?

Yay! More violent games for girls! >:3

♥♥II'GSJQGDvhhMKOmXunSrogZliLHGKVMhGVmNhBzGUPiXLYki'GRQhBITqQrrOIJKNWiXKO♥♥

Eh. I really don't like the emphasis on video games in CS education. And I'm not sure what game design has to do with it anyway, that's like getting people interested in aesthetics as an effort to teach them mechanics.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

That's certainly encouraging, but they'll really need to target girls aggressively, since gaming culture as a whole is still quite unwelcoming.

Ummm...I hope the girls don't get their jobs just because they're girls, and instead, because they have something to offer...

For me, I care more about my games being appealing and fun and less about which gender is being portrayed in what ways.

edited 13th Feb '11 8:14:44 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

The education was based on scripting, it seems, which while not as "pure" as more traditional languages does get important concepts across. Behavior is just as critical as calculation, after all. Even moreso at the high level, usually.

Do you highlight everything looking for secret messages?

The stress of working in a male-dominated field  ^*

tends to weed out women who aren't genuinely interested/talented fairly early on.

Commercial game developers will attempt to meet the demands of their consumer base. If that someday means making more gender-inclusive games or cutting down on fanservice (don't hold your breath, though), tough cookies.

edited 13th Feb '11 8:33:55 PM by Penguin4Senate

"That's certainly encouraging, but they'll really need to target girls aggressively, since gaming culture as a whole is still quite unwelcoming." - Penguin

In what sense, and what do you base this on?

Why not? Video games are to CS what NASA is to general research. Sure it's not immediately useful in itself, but the stuff you have to get a handle on to get there is of immense value. Video games are an all-around stress test necessitating some really clever tools and workarounds that you can use in basically any field. Hell, half the large-file-management tricks I'm using for my senior project I learned from the game design club — the same stuff I used to keep track of particle effects and large clipping lists without straining memory or speed is now about to be used for highway maintenance.

Also I majorly approve of getting more girls in this field. While not as much of a glaring boys' club as physics, it's still pretty atrocious.

edited 13th Feb '11 11:06:04 PM by Pykrete

@Tangent: Yeah, I'm probably just being curmudgeony. Efforts to make maths less of a sausage fest are certainly fine with me, anyway.

@Pykrete: It's as if every other student in my class only wanted to be a physicist so that they could work for NASA.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Signed: That article was neither about getting computer science jobs nor about the content of said games.

It was about a high school computer science program designed to encourage girls' interest in computer programming.

Tzetze: Where's the implication that girls in this program are only getting into computer science because they want to be game designers? There's a difference between getting interested in a field because of an interesting subfield and getting into it for the sole purpose of getting into the subfield.

edited 14th Feb '11 12:20:44 PM by jewelleddragon

Fun fact: 3/4 of my master's course are girls.

That's literally 3 people, there's only four of us, and it's a conversion course so no prior experience needed. We got mixed in with a group of final-year undergrads from computer science and a couple other technical degrees for one event and they were almost all male.

BTW, I'm a chick.

^^It's more of a general complaint on my part. Pretty much everyone I know in CS started it because they wanted to make video games, and that bothers me.

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.

Would you be bothered if I said that most people who went into the engineering program wanted to build jets/cars?

Fight smart, not fair.

"Also I majorly approve of getting more girls in this field. While not as much of a glaring boys' club as physics, it's still pretty atrocious." - Pykrete

In what sense do you claim physics and CS are "boys' clubs" and what do you base this on?

^^ Not seeing the problem with that. We need more cool cars that are jet-powered.

edited 14th Feb '11 1:29:13 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

I can't speak for Pykrete, but in my college's entire CS department I could probably count all the girls I know on two hands, and my college is notorious for being very male-dominated (mention "the ratio" and people instantly understand what you mean).
That said, I'm not sure how much of a problem this is with CS specifically so much as with there not being as much female interest in math/science in general.

In my experience (Harvey Mudd, which granted has a better ratio than most), bio and chem were female-dominated, physics and math were about even, and engineering and computer science were male-dominated.

Engineering and computer science make up a strong majority of the student body, though.

Fun fact: AP Computer Science has the lowest representation of female test-takers (~15%) out of all AP subjects nationwide. This is one of the reasons why I said programs targeting female students would need to be aggressive - because it seems that, if something is discouraging girls from going into the field, it's happening pretty early on.

neo YT Pism: Essentially, gaming culture is unwelcoming to female gamers because it frequently pretends they don't exist (which in turn has helped lead to a ridiculous obsession with girrrrrl gamers). I could dig up the studies about females adopting male personas even in contexts where they outnumber male players, but you could just stroll through your board/major gaming website of choice and take a look at demographics, how male vs. female reviewers and staff are presented, and how games are marketed. It's quite uneven, and while it obviously doesn't keep all girls out, it's not particularly encouraging to those who are on the fence.

Regarding people getting interested in computer science in order to design computer games, my reply is:

So? Where's the problem?

If you have the skills, economic concerns will likely prompt you to do other stuff, besides the fact that things that don't seem exciting when you're heading into a field often become so when you're immersed in it.

And even if they stick to making games, that's cool too. We need more games made by women.

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.

I mean that in my four years of physics at UO there were four girls, none of whom made it past 300-level (and one rather blatantly sexist professor), and in CS at OSU there are currently around one hand's worth who did make it past 300-level.

edited 15th Feb '11 2:43:31 PM by Pykrete