Homosexuality is/isn't a choice.

The purpose of this thread, for me specifically, is to get a few answers which seem to have forsaken me.

• Why is it so darn important to homosexuals, to prove that homosexuality is a choice? One would think that if they believe it to be OK, they wouldn't care about this.
• Where is this "gay gene"?
• Is genetics the sole decider, or does anyone think otherwise?
• Does nurture have any effect?
• Is anything about oneself a choice? (in the opinion of homosexuals)
• What about stuff like fetishes?
  • I myself can willfully be squicked out by something, and vice-versa.

Discussion ensues.

You can, others can't. You are not the basis for all human life. Sad but true.

That isn't very helpful.

At the very least, why can I choose while others can't?

edited 11th Feb '11 6:36:20 PM by TheMightyAnonym

The same way some people can understand any subject they try at, and other people won't understand music no matter how hard they try.

edited 11th Feb '11 6:36:51 PM by MrAHR

It's important because it's the main reason why people justify discrimination.

As Snail said, it allows homophobes to "justify" their hatred and yell on and on about the so-called "Gay Agenda". We don't need this just because we screw different people.

I think the urge to prove that it's not a choice comes from a misguided attempt to argue with the people who claim that gay people are disgusting for choosing to do something evil and immoral. Really, it never made any sense to me either because it seems they've got it totally backwards: wouldn't it be much better to argue that homosexuality isn't evil or immoral, instead of arguing that it's not a choice?

# Where is this "gay gene"?

agh.

Tibetan Fox mentioned something awhile back that I looked into a bit. If I'm remembering correctly, it has been proven that homosexuality, transsexuality, and pretty much everything else on the gender spectrum is governed by a number of factors. Ranging from biological to environmental to other various words that end in "al". This is also apparently actually old news, but for some reason is not widely known.

I'll be damned if I can find the article when I actually need it though.

These opinions vary quite widely, even among homosexuals. I've met some who believe it's a choice, and some who think it's pre-determined.

-shrug-

Until we find out for sure, it's anyones guess really, the only thing folks can do is stop harassing them about it.

At the very least, why can I choose while others can't?

You can't, to be honest. You can make a conscious decision to just not indulge in any sort of desires you may or may not have, but at the end of the day if you wake up and have subconscious thoughts that X person of the same gender is hot, then that's still part of you.

My Ex-Girlfriend went off and did this born-again christian bullshit, she's bisexual. I pretty much burned the bridge with her when we started talking about how she's upset that she really likes this girl but she can't do anything about it because of X religious reasons, and that you can be a good Christian and still be bisexual as long as you don't act on it.

I called her a fucking loon, that's garbage, and that's mentally damaging. Even I recognize that, and my sexuality is about as simple as it gets, mmm vag...

edited 11th Feb '11 6:42:15 PM by Barkey

It's important because it's the main reason why people justify discrimination.

I figured this might be the case.

If it was an obvious choice like drug use, then it would a lifestyle thing and thus easily attackable; whereas if it's not an obvious choice, it gets compared to race, and thus, is unattackable.

Kind of lame.

edited 11th Feb '11 6:40:55 PM by TheMightyAnonym

Here's an article. I can get more if needed, probably.

^^In the long run, does it really matter?

I don't think it makes anymore sense to discriminate people based on orientation than it does on earlobe shape.

If it was an obvious choice like drug use, then it would a lifestyle thing and thus easily attackable; whereas if it's not an obvious choice, it gets compared to race, and thus, is unattackable.

Its attackability, as it were, doesn't make it any less immoral.

edited 11th Feb '11 6:41:30 PM by SpainSun

Why is it lame?

Here's an article. I can get more if needed, probably.

This only shows that there is pressure. :/

I guess, if one is coerced, is it no longer a choice? What if it's only a little bit of pressure, that anyone could ignore?

Why is it lame?

This:

I think the urge to prove that it's not a choice comes from a misguided attempt to argue with the people who claim that gay people are disgusting for choosing to do something evil and immoral. Really, it never made any sense to me either because it seems they've got it totally backwards: wouldn't it be much better to argue that homosexuality isn't evil or immoral, instead of arguing that it's not a choice?

This:

And so, because people are arguing about it wrong...you agree with the people they're arguing against.

[insert question marks]

Did you actually read the article? They gave biological reasons.

This only shows that there is pressure.

No, it shows probable epigenetic causation of homosexual behavior.

Anyway, the attitude of it being a choice makes no sense to me. Since when do people choose their sexual desires? Can you make yourself enjoy sex with a corpse?

People do argue that homosexuality isn't immoral. I don't care if it's a choice or not (even though it isn't, and researchers may have found an idea of what the gay gene is [it's more likely a byproduct of a different phenotype than an actively selected one]), it doesn't hurt anybody and it doesn't affect anybody else's lives.

wouldn't it be much better to argue that homosexuality isn't evil or immoral, instead of arguing that it's not a choice?

Christian arguments against homosexuality usually rely on it being in control of the so-called sinner, because if it was caused genetically than it would basically be God's fault, not theirs. Arguing that it isn't a choice is meant to shut down this line of thought.

What? If someone claimed that black holes must exist because Einstein says so, I'd say they're arguing wrong. That doesn't mean I believe black holes don't exist.

I'm just saying that "it's not a choice, so it must be okay" is an unbelievably stupid argument. There's evidence that aggression is at least partially genetic, and a lot of psychopaths suffer from dopamine deficiencies in their brains. Does that mean we shouldn't punish murderers and rapists, because maybe they didn't have a choice when it came to their aggressive feelings?

I think gay people deserve equal rights. I don't see how whether or not homosexuality is a choice has any bearing on the subject. If it turned out that people do choose to be gay, I would still support gay marriage and visitation rights and stuff 100%. Are you saying you wouldn't?

edited 11th Feb '11 6:54:03 PM by zoulza

Did you actually read the article? They gave biological reasons.

Yes.

However, it doesn't show whether or not people affected by what they mentioned are compelled to be homosexual. If anything, such would very difficult to measure. If they could observe this occurring in a number of subjects, and follow them to adulthood, we would be able to see if the concept is true or not.

Hence, the article only shows that there is a tendency among a certain group to be more likely to be gay than another group. All that demonstrates is a common pressure.

No, it shows probable epigenetic causation of homosexual behavior.

Show me that this absolutely affects behavior. Such that one couldn't have any control over it, no matter what.

Can you make yourself enjoy sex with a corpse?

I probably could, but the moral issues attached to such would prevent me from ever trying. Chagen himself stated that he was "a religious homophobe" before "realizing" that he was gay all along.

edited 11th Feb '11 6:55:57 PM by TheMightyAnonym

edit: nvm.

I think gay people deserve equal rights. I don't see how whether or not homosexuality is a choice has any bearing on the subject. If it turned out that people do choose to be gay, I would still support gay marriage and visitation rights and stuff 100%. Are you saying you wouldn't?

I was just pointing out what Anonym is doing. Not that I think that way (I don't).

edited 11th Feb '11 6:55:57 PM by SpainSun

By the by, I support gay rights.

Just throwing that out there.

I don't condone it, but it's not exactly my business, unless you want to debate theology.

edited 11th Feb '11 6:57:19 PM by TheMightyAnonym

However, it doesn't show whether or not people affected by what they mentioned are compelled to be homosexual.

There's a correlation between number of older brothers and homosexuality. Not younger brothers, or sisters, so it's not a social thing. How is that not compulsion?

If they could observe this occurring in a number of subjects, and follow them to adulthood, we would be able to see if the concept is true or not.

You appear to be completely misunderstanding the nature of the study, because there's nothing to follow. They just counted siblings of homosexual men.

I probably could, but the moral issues attached to such would prevent me from ever trying.

Oh good, countering scientific evidence with unprovable assertions.

Well, I'll confirm with you right now that I am an only child and I had no pressure to be gay whatsoever. I was surrounded by heterosexuals my entire life. I was never influenced. I just turned out this way.