Buddhists and Intrigued Non-Buddhist Laymen, CONVERGE HERE

One description I like of Petta is that they have large, bloated stomachs but tiny mouths, always being oppressed by insatiable desires but without the means to adequately meet them. There are some who consider the aftlife realms to be more of a cautionary tale, I'm fairly certain. Regarding rebirth/reincarnation, one description I like is that it's similar to a series of candles: every subsequent life is directly dependent on the one before it for existence, and ultimately came from the same flame, but the two are you also two separate entities.

edited 17th Mar '12 3:08:03 PM by randomtropeloser

I'm not sure whether or not they do exist. As is by our traditional understanding I think it's better to treat their use as that of cautionary tales. Whether or not we think of them as real.

very interestinge one question btw

Is Deva the place where the gods you praise live? like guyan?

Deva are the gods themselves. It's to them what human is to us. A species name. Guanyin may or may not reside in the deva realm at any point in time. Depending on what her exact plans are. As is the Bodhisatta and celestial Buddha gods live in Pure Lands that they set up. Which are like little pockets of space time quite like a Heaven. They sort of...bloom out of a single point. Kind of like a lotus.

I'm not entirely certain how they work however. The Bodhisatta and such having total understanding of such matters do though. Along with the power to actually make and maintain the things.

With the judging of the kamma, are there specific beings that judge it or is it an automatic thing?

Karma isn't really something that is judged. There's no great being who will decide whether your actions are good or bad based on your karma. It's more like a force originating from one's actions that will push one along a certain path, positive or negative. Buddhists see karma as part of causality - metaphysical causality, if you will. The concept forces one to think about the ramifications of what one does, as each action incurs karma.

For example, if I were to murder someone, then a great deal of negative karma is generated. I have caused suffering for that person in their violent death, there's the suffering of that person's loved ones, and I will suffer from ending another person's life. One can see this suffering regardless of whether someone is there to judge my actions.

Yep, that makes sense but I was talking specifically about during rebirth, since aondeug mentioned it on the page before this one.

Oh, sorry. I believe that karma continues to push one along during rebirth without judging, but Aon may have a different view (we practise different branches of Buddhism).

It's not judging in the sense of an entity or something bringing forth judgement. It's judgement in the sense of something coming to fruition. I couldn't think of a better word at the time. As is it does fit I think. Judgement being "What are the results of this thing?" in this case as opposed to "BRING HEAVENLY JUSTICE UPON THE LOWLY MORTALS". Given that this is religion we're talking about there's implication problems however that lead to better words being more useful.

Buddhism does have a judge however. Yama. He sits in Hell and directs people to whatever Naraka they must go to based on the kamma. He's one of the few beings in existence that can easily read and interpret kamma. While kamma itself seems like a simple concept there's so many factors involved it makes reading of kamma next to impossible for people who don't have a very, very keen view of how things work. Which we don't. We don't have the weird super sight people like Yama have. Things like the fact that the effect is to be judged based on a series of four factors (circumstance, intention, action, and effect), you're constantly generating more kamma for everything you do (even neutral acts generate null kamma that does well...nothing), you have old kamma from older lives, and that there's other individuals whose lives and kamma lines end up intertwined with your own make it very, very hard to read.

So the concept itself is very simple. Metaphysical cause and effect. The system in practice is something of an unholy cluster fuck.

edited 18th Mar '12 12:22:48 PM by Aondeug

Thanks for the answers.

Sure thing. I apologize for using such a easy to mistake word in this context.

hey Aondeug can I ask you something about Avatar The Last Airbender and The Legend Of Korra. is it just me or does those show uses a lot of buddist themes? like a buddist Narnia?

edited 26th Mar '12 8:38:11 PM by FallenLegend

It has Buddhist ideas here and there yes. This shows most commonly in the case of the Air Nomads. Their culture and visual aesthetic is based on Tibetan monks. Over all I really liked the Air Nomads because they display a sort of side to Buddhism that not everyone sees. That is the calm and kind, yet playful side. The monks at my temple goof around every so often and the abbot makes skilled use of humor. He's a funny dude.

The Guru, though he is more reminiscent of some other Dhammic religions, also displays bits of Buddhism. Namely his "Abandoning of earthly attachments" thing in order to reach Enlightenment and full self realization. The struggle Aang faced during that moment hit me rather personally since I myself struggle with the idea of abandoning the one I love for the sake of Enlightenment. Theoretically it's possible that we'll meet again and in my form we more than likely will. And we could have the same sort of relationship again. However the end of my path is let go of sensual pleasures of which my romantic love for her is one.

The show also displays bit of Taoism and Shintoism here and there in a variety of ways. As well as fangirling about Miyazaki. I wouldn't say it is a Buddhist Narnia as a result. It has aspects of Buddhism that it shows, but it does this with much of Asia and there's a lot of religions in Asia.

Thanks!

Do you think enlightments is more important than love? and by love I mean all The Four Loves

Just being curious

I don't know if you were asking my opinion as well, but I'd personally say that the two largely go hand in hand. It's kind of difficult to answer the question, as in my personal opinion trying to decide whether enlightenment is more important than love would be a bit like trying to figure out whether it's more important to love or to help people.

Enlightenment is more important than three of the four if you wish it to be. I am considering it such since I want eternal bliss and freedom from pain. The official Buddhist stances tend to be "Yes" however.

Agape is very similar to the Buddhist concept of loving kindness, also called metta. It is an unconditional love spread to all living beings, including non-humans, regardless of circumstance. It is a desire for them to be happy, healthy, strong, and wise. It is considered to be free from emotional love.

The other loves are based on affection and preference, but they aren't considered useless. They're actually important and beneficial. Or can be if done right. Hence our canon provides advice and guidelines on how to love in such fashions. Not everyone can be a monk. Our societies won't work then.

Instead the laity supports the monks physical livelihood so that they are in a prime position for reaching Enlightenment. The monks then make up for this by teaching and guiding the laity as well as providing them emotional counsel and refuge in times of great trouble. The idea is to provide a way of life that is most conducive to achieving the goal, but one that will help those who aren't in the monkhood. These people then learn from their non-monk experiences and are guided by the monks until they at some point likely become monks themselves and, after time, achieve Enlightenment.

It's a communal ring of joined hands that hold each other up and pull one another up.

edited 26th Mar '12 8:47:12 PM by Aondeug

Also, this is just sort of a side note, but I'm fairly certain that many bodhisattva, who not all Buddhists expressly believe in but generally treat as role models, are said to have chosen to stay in this existence instead of reaching enlightenment in order to help others do so.

EDIT: Thanks fo the reply yu two

Retutrning to the show Was the avatar state like enlighment?

and speaking of that what is enlightment exactly?

edited 26th Mar '12 9:02:39 PM by FallenLegend

They are indeed said to do that. The one I worship, Guanyin, is among their number.

^The fully realized Avatar state was hinted at being so by Pathik.

As for Enlightenment...It is a total realization of the Truth of reality and how things like pain and joy work. You are at total peace with this. Everything. Even your own death. None of it shakes you. For you have accepted it. Yet you have not abandoned love for the world and the beings in it. You are swayed by love and mercy to help them along. To help them be happy, healthy, strong, and wise. Once you hit it truly you are on your way out of the universe because you've used up all your kamma and are no longer generating any.

edited 26th Mar '12 9:02:49 PM by Aondeug

She is like a goddess that helps to reach enlighment?

edited 26th Mar '12 9:04:15 PM by FallenLegend

Yes. She is known for her mercy and often portrayed as being the physical representation of it and compassion. She watches over all of reality and helps as many beings as she can.

I really hope that I am not bothering you

Btw you mentioned that enlighment was like a way out of the universe. What happens when you get out of the universe? and why would you want to abandon it?

edited 26th Mar '12 9:10:00 PM by FallenLegend

You're not. I'm rather happy someone is asking questions honestly.

As for what happens. We're not sure and taught not to focus too much on asking. Partly because no one can really describe it in the first place to those who aren't. It's like explaining the fullness of God to someone who has never had it thrust upon them. It's not something you can do. What we do know and are told is that it is free of pain and that it is neither a state of existence or non-existence.

As for why. Because of the pain and repetition. It's like wanting to take a nice sleep after a long day at work. Save that this rest is forever.

edited 26th Mar '12 9:10:26 PM by Aondeug

wow and I assume all the enlighted people can be together right?

I assume they still can influence the world right? If enlighted peeople "are swayed by love and mercy to help them along. To help them be happy, healthy, strong, and wise" they won't be able to do it outside the universe where they don't have any influence or power to help can they?

edited 26th Mar '12 9:16:42 PM by FallenLegend

They can't sway the world. Your parinibbana is a permanent ticket out of the universe and from interacting with it apparently. Bodhisatta are on the verge of that but forgo it to help those who aren't Enlightened yet.

As for being all together...In a sense yes. But given that part of becoming Enlightened is accepting the falsehood of a "self" in the sense of a static being, including that of a soul, it likely wouldn't be as individuals.