Spider-Man General Discussion

-Shudder at the name Whedon-

as big a name as he is i haven't actually seen much of his work. the only one i have an opinion on is the first avengers, which i found boring.

edited 29th Jun '15 7:07:54 PM by wehrmacht

My experience with Whedon is the Avengers movies - I found both to be great, fun movies - and his run on Astonishing X Men. And that was fantastic. An instant classic, one of the all-time great X-Men runs, behind only Claremont and Morrison.

So I would never object to Whedon writing a comic. Especially since he doesn't seem like the type to pull a Kevin Smith - you know, a guy who takes 8 months to do three issues and then never bothers finishing the series. As far as I know, Astonishing X-Men didn't suffer any particular delays. Whedon spent a little over two years writing it. Someone like Allan Heinberg - who created the Young Avengers - would take 2 years to put out an 8-issue mini.

Whedon's awesome. Astonishing X-Men and the Avengers films were good, but Buffy, Angel, and Firefly are arguably his Magnum Opuses, and darn fine shows still remembered to this day. If he wrote another comic, then yeah, sign me up.

My only thought on Whedon writing comics is that I wasn't over fond of his run on the Runaways

A few other relaunches. Relevant to this thread, Spider-Man 2099 will continue with PAD and Will Sliney. And Amazing Spider-Man will still be written by Dan Slott. Dammit. I was really, really hoping he'd leave the book. It's time he left ASM. Leave ASM, Slott. You told some great stories, you really did. But it's time. Let someone else take over. Just move on, and let someone else take over.

All the writing I've seen him do has the dialogue constantly moving from zinger to zinger. Just a constant stream of "Look how witty I am!" "I'm funny too!" "OMG you guys, aren't we all so quirky and quipy and fun?"

Whedon is capable of good ideas and some great emotional resonance, but I find his "style" to be forced and circle-jerkish. I've also got beef with Firefly fans, but that's not entirely relevant.

What are Slott's good stories? The view I have of him is very skewed.

edited 29th Jun '15 6:49:50 PM by illegalcheese

A good writer lets you decide if something he wrote is funny.

Joss Whedon pokes you with a stick and tells you to laugh because he's a genius.

his run on superior spider man was fun to read (or well up to the point where i was at anyway), but the main problem with it was that otto made no effort to try and ACT like peter at all. he didn't speak like him, act like him, or really resemble peter in any way. and yet none of the characters except like one, in this world where clones/mind control/robot duplicates/etc are things that exist, suspected maybe something was off. also ghost peter was fucking obnoxious and i hated him every time he showed up.

edited 29th Jun '15 7:13:28 PM by wehrmacht

What are Slott's good stories? The view I have of him is very skewed.

His Ren & Stimpy run and Arkham Asylum: Living Hell.

But I don't think he's a very good fit for Spider-Man.

Speaking of which. Did Peter ever verbally slap the shit out of the rest of the superheroes for not realizing that Otto obviously wasn't him? Superior relied entirely on every other superhero in the world being the stupidest motherfucker who ever lived.

I liked his Great Lakes Avengers mini

I only actually came into Slott's ASM with Spider Island, which I thought was a really good story. Ends of the Earth was good. I've heard good things about his stories from prior to Spider Island. And while it had some glaring problems, Superior was mostly really good.

But it's definitely time he moved on. Spider-Verse should have been his swan song. He's not going to get bigger than that. It was the logical climax of his run, and he should've left soon after that. Another arc, maybe two, to wrap up any remaining plot points and make a final statement on who Spider-Man is.

But nope, Slott's clinging on, doing what I'm sure will be more lackluster stories. He should've left the book, and give someone else the chance to make their statement.

edited 29th Jun '15 7:14:49 PM by Tiamatty

I think Superior is a interesting, but flawed read. I'm ok with the premise in theory since it Decontructed the idea of a Heel–Face Turn. Someone's true nature doesn't instantly change just because they decided to try their hand at being a good guy at the drop of a hat.

Problem though was it required one hell of a Idiot Plot to make it work.

He did literally slap the shit out of Captain America, but it was moreso because he didn't tell Peter that Flash was Agent Venom.

edited 29th Jun '15 7:28:42 PM by Lionheart0

Joss Whedon pokes you with a stick and tells you to laugh because he's a genius.

I take it you've never seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer, have you?

Seen all seven seasons and that's still pretty accurate.

I have enjoyed all of Whedon's works but the maximum overquiping does get on my nerves.

And I don't like that he has this rep as being THE guy to write strong female characters because I think that's an area he isn't really good at. I've heard someone describe him as a guy who almost gets it and I think that makes sense.

It makes the areas he falls short on pretty frustrating.

We're still talking the guy who used a fridging as a plot point in Dr Horrible

so almost gets it sounds about right

Um, no, fridging is to motivate a character. Penny's death didn't motivate Dr. Horrible at all - he wanted to be a villain no matter what. All the death give it an ironic twist and make it into a Downer Ending.

Now, what he did to Tara, that was fridging.

Superior was a load of crap. OMD was better than it. Slott on his worst days is a hack supremo and if this cover is any indication◊, he's learned absolutely no lessons.

edited 30th Jun '15 1:04:58 AM by Zarius

Its not just about motivation. Penny died for Billy's manpain so he can be sad at a camera.

He got everything he wanted at the cost of everything he wanted! Man that sure sucks for him

yeaaaaaaaah i can't really agree with that. OMD was a horrific character assassination and a completely dreadful story besides. also, superior was over before long. OMD's effects are still felt to this day.

Superior took a bigger dump on the characters by having them act like oblivious idiots void of reason and comprehension. One thing OMD had going for it was high-stakes and even the ending, while tragic, gives you lingering hope something will work out (it of course has yet to materialize that way, but as DKR's Bane said, "there is no true despair without hope").

I'm not saying OMD is good, it's terrible, but I just find it better written and there's a lot of faux-shadowing in it that gets my creative juices going, very much the same for any aspiring writer who may go back to it once Marvel moves out of it's current regime and fans who like the marriage take over.

edited 30th Jun '15 3:47:57 AM by Zarius

eh, even with how oblivious everyone is in Superior, that doesn't really bother me as much as OMD. Between Peter's horrendous characterization, the terrible premise, the awful contrived set-up they create to make the plot possible, everyone being infuriating, etc. also, the stakes would have been much higher if it was MJ who got shot and was in risk of dying, as opposed to an old lady who only had a few years left and outright told Peter it was ok for him to move on.

I can't say anything really good about OMD. It is a story where everything that could go wrong went wrong.

edited 30th Jun '15 5:06:53 AM by wehrmacht

What was wrong with Peter's characterisation in Superior?

well i was actually talking about peter's characterization in OMD. There's a ghostly version of Peter who bothers Otto for the first few issues in Superior though, and in spite of the fact that Otto basically stole his life I still find him extremely annoying.